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 Post subject: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Great editorial by John Adams-Graf of Military Trader on whether today's militaria shows are too long:
http://www.militarytrader.com/jagfile/t ... e-day-show

I have to admit I love SOS but by Saturday afternoon I can't get out of that hall fast enough.


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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:23 pm 
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I could see that with some exceptions, shows like SOS and Max etc. need more time....

James

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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Although it may be a good idea and many vendors would go for it,there is one point to consider. Usually the hall is rented for the weekend. Sunday is actually costing the promoter little of nothing. Therefore the gate fees taken in are all gravy.

I'm and "old school" purchaser, I like to see what I'm buying. Yes I may shop the internet, I do little purchasing from it.


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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:53 pm 
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I do agree that the big shows are worth several days, but as I set up at a few other shows I find the multi-day regional shows to be an utter waste of time. Rarely do I sell anything on Sunday, and I understand it from the promoters point of view. But I've been in halls where no one has come in since noon. At that point even if I was the promoter I'd say, "let's it wrap it."

I also like to buy at shows. What has changed for me is that as a youth my great uncle felt you needed to walk the show twice and then narrow down what you would buy. Now I learned to bring more money and buy the must-have things when you see them, and then narrow the hunt until you are out of money!


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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Wednesday setup should be dropped and moved to Thursday at both the SOS and Max. The whole schedule should be slipped by a day. Saturday should be a full day, for those who work and can't get Friday off. Sunday should be breakdown and departure.

The SOS replicated Wednesday setup from the Max years ago. It was a mistake.

My strongest customers are those from Europe. That is where the future of the hobby is, and most who deal in the stuff know it. If it is not worthwhile for them to come over and spend only a day or two.

Sorry, but Military Trader is not the voice of the hobby........ for most it is a non-player. Waaaay behind the times.

A Friday night setup and full day Saturday is fine for a small 100-200 table show. I like them as well. But not if I want to sell something for more than $500. For many small shows I go to, $50 is too much for those who come through the door.

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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:47 pm 
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LangeKerl wrote:
Wednesday setup should be dropped and moved to Thursday at both the SOS and Max. The whole schedule should be slipped by a day. Saturday should be a full day, for those who work and can't get Friday off. Sunday should be breakdown and departure.

The SOS replicated Wednesday setup from the Max years ago. It was a mistake.


Hi, Willi--
You bring up good points.

The issue with Wednesday at SOS now is that 2,000 tables takes a HUGE amount of time to set up. At the MAX the hall's union crew sets up the tables, but at SOS it is the volunteers and they get to move in early. With 2,000 tables there is no other way than do the set up on Wednesday and if some get to move in early than others complain, and hence we now have the mad rush in. Also, there is the argument with potentially cold weather (not the last two years however but certainly the two prior years) that the dealers want to drive in. There is no way to accommodate everyone moving in early on Thursday and having the show open to members at 12:30pm.

The Wednesday at MAX does make that show a bit too long I agree. It is now to the point that dealers are hanging out in the parking lot at noon on Wednesday so that they can rush to get in. Personally I would agree that MAX doesn't need the early move in as the hall's crew sets up the tables.

I think SOS will be interesting again next year as the gun show is back the same weekend. I'm not sure which hall Ron Dixon managed to secure. It sounds like SOS and the Gun Show may have just flipped halls but I'm not sure.

I'm in agreement with you that smaller shows are about the lower ticket items. I've certainly been adapting what I bring to sell depending on the different shows. I bring different items to Baltimore than I had at SOS and I tried to bring different stuff to Tulsa. It is about knowing the audience and I think you and I both know Willi that one problem is too many dealers haul around the same stuff from show to show and then complain that the hobby is dying.

Cheers,
PS


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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:22 pm 
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I do not think that it would be possible to drop Wednesday set up at SOS, even after the tables are set up, it takes a lot of time to get 2,000 tables moved in and set up, and the end of the show is the same, if everyone waited until closing time to pack up, it would be a nightmare to depart. Even on Sunday, there is a lot of tables filled with stuff for sale, all the great bargains are not always gone, as vendors who are packing up will sometimes take a deep cut in price rather than haul things back home at the last minute, and that is a great time to pick up the heavy things.

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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:04 pm 
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I stated the entire show should be slipped forward by one day. This way Saturday would be a full day (as the current Friday is). Sunday at 3 would be when table holders can start packing and leave.

Right now the show caters to table holders, advanced collectors, and OVMS members. Many working folks can not take Friday off to attend the show, and don't want to travel on Saturday when they see dealers packing at noontime, despite the rules. I know, with the current schedule, by Saturday I am beat and ready to go home.

I have mentioned to show promoters for years to hear what the folks have to say, and have suggested surveys be conducted, to both table holders and the public.

Like I said, the Max started Wednesday setup a few years ago, and Sunday completely died for the public and most table holders. And the SOS then followed the Max's mistake. Now Wednesday is embedded. Sunday is a waste.

The shows are dying and partially because of poor decision making and management.

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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Willi, you bring up some excellent points and I do think Baltimore (as you and I both have seen) gets a huge gate both Saturday/Sunday because dealers aren't packing up at 12noon on Saturday as you pointed out. I agree with you it makes little sense to travel any great distance to go to Louisville just for Saturday.

I have stayed set up until 5pm on to show support for the show on Saturday, but I found myself in a ghost town by 4:30pm and rushed to pack up. So like everyone else I'm ready to hit the road by 3pm as well.

One problem however with slipping the show by a day is the way these convention halls are run. I don't know for certain but having been to enough trade shows over the years there are expenses on what days clean up can be done as well as issues depending on the day the next show needs to moves in, as well as what is happening in the rest of the building. SOS was pushed a week because of the helicopter show - an event that makes our little event seem non-existent. That is a trade show that attracts 35,000 people compared to our couple of thousand of attendees. Hotels 20 miles away are sold out that week.

There is a time on Sunday when everyone has to be out due to the crew rules. So making everyone stay until 3pm is difficult. How is Lance with the books going to be moved out by 8pm? He practically needs all day Sunday as it is, so does that mean Monday needs to be a move out day for the dealers that bring more stuff?

I'm completely on the same page with you. These shows cater to the table holders and members that are willing to take time off to come to the show. Young collectors who are in school and people who can't get the time off from work are really screwed. And we know other shows (Baltimore for one, the Tulsa Gun Show for another) successfully have weekend shows, and it is an honest shame that the largest show for militaria is dead by Saturday afternoon. That isn't a good way to grow the hobby.

The other thing I'll add is that I'm personally happy as a clam that the car show is done and won't be returning the same weekend next year. I have nothing against car guys, but I found that too often the car crowd would show up early and decide to stroll through the hall at SOS with the kids. No problem but that crowd buys nothing, touches everything and really was just killing time. So I'm personally happy that we will lose those attendees. They may have helped fill out the hall, but let's be brutally honest there were few new collectors from that crowd.

Finally, I hope the gun show being the same weekend will help SOS. I know many people have said SOS helps the gun show more than the other way around, but the truth is that SOS did benefit from the advertising that Ron Dixon paid for on TV and billboards. Even if only 10 percent of those heading to the gun show came into our hall that was someone who might not otherwise have made it.

I will only add that it is great to see that so many of us care. Let's keep fighting the good fight.


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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Peter, I sincerely doubt the show hall management, of either the Max or SOS, had anything to do with the schedule. Since you mentioned the gun show, they always had a strong Sat and Sun, and never setup before Friday.

I remember when the old "Max Show mafia" moved to Weds for setup. Same time I stopped staying till Sunday.

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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:13 am 
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LangeKerl wrote:
I stated the entire show should be slipped forward by one day. This way Saturday would be a full day (as the current Friday is). Sunday at 3 would be when table holders can start packing and leave.

Right now the show caters to table holders, advanced collectors, and OVMS members. Many working folks can not take Friday off to attend the show, and don't want to travel on Saturday when they see dealers packing at noontime, despite the rules. I know, with the current schedule, by Saturday I am beat and ready to go home.

I have mentioned to show promoters for years to hear what the folks have to say, and have suggested surveys be conducted, to both table holders and the public.

Like I said, the Max started Wednesday setup a few years ago, and Sunday completely died for the public and most table holders. And the SOS then followed the Max's mistake. Now Wednesday is embedded. Sunday is a waste.

The shows are dying and partially because of poor decision making and management.


Yeah, I missed that part, I think that would work, although I do not see SOS falling off because of the earlier times.

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 Post subject: Re: One Day Shows
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:02 am 
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Quote:
Right now the show caters to table holders, advanced collectors, and OVMS members. Many working folks can not take Friday off to attend the show, and don't want to travel on Saturday when they see dealers packing at noontime, despite the rules. I know, with the current schedule, by Saturday I am beat and ready to go home.


I agree with Willi and Peter. All the really good stuff was gone by Thursday at noon. This not only caters to the table holders but shows the aging of the collector community. The young bucks cannot take off work to travel for that long of a period. Especially when limited vacation time has to be budgeted along with other family members and children. Saturday and Sunday is where it should be but right now those days are also-rans.

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