It is currently Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:17 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:36 am 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:22 am
Posts: 437
This helmet belonged to Artillerie Offizier Jos Kuiffer, 8th Foot Artillery (Rheinisches), XVI Armee Korps, Metz. He was a Fahnrich:

Image

The spike is excessively tall for a Kugelhelm and it has sustained a slight rearward tilt:

Image

Image

The Wappen is held on with screw fasteners and retains almost all of it's original gilt:

Image

The liner is intact:

Image

There are several markings on the inside of the helmet shell including the size, 56 1/2, and a note: "Fur Artillerie Offizier Jos Kuiffer". I am not the best when it comes to German script but the writing is fairly simple to make out, except for the Jos part, so I had a friend of mine in Munich help me with the script issue to make sure it said what I thought it did:

Image

There is also a mark "FR" next to the note:

Image

There is another scribble on the other side of the helmet that my friend said was another "FR":

Image

The script is in pencil and done in very poor handwriting. It may just be a note to the maker of who the helmet was going to and what type of Wappen to put on it, "FR". I doubt that the "FR" stood for Fahnrich since that is only one word.

I also have Herr Kuiffer's sword. It's a standard Heer, dove head sword with officer's portapee:

Image

The Fahnrich's pipe is also included:

Image

The pipe is very unusual since it has a Kugelhelm cover, like one would find on a regimental pipe, but the bowl has a picture of the Metz Catherdral, written in French "Cathedrale Metz". Fahnrich Kuiffer must have had an affinity for Elsass Lothringen.

Image

Both the Portapee and the Troddeln on the pipe are "blue - red - blue" indicating the 8th Company. This seems odd since a foot artillery battalion had four howitzer batteries and two heavy mortar batteries. There was no 8th batterie, or company. Perhaps he just used these colors to represent "8th Regt". There is always something to research.

Image

John :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:12 am 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 333
Location: EU, Latvia
Nice! Very nice!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:14 am 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:21 pm
Posts: 241
Location: New Orleans
Nice collection you have there.

What a tall kugel !!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:37 am 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:09 am
Posts: 64
Location: Scottsboro, Alabama
Nice collection, especially since it all can be attributed to a specific individual.

_________________
Neil


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:39 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:35 am
Posts: 645
Location: United Kingdom
John,

an interesting conundrum. With regards to the number of companies in a Foot Artillery Regiment, I can confirm as at 1914 there were in fact eight in peacetime. Please see the extract for Fuß-Artillerie-Regiment Nr. 8 for 1914 which shows the officers assigned to that company.

The Portepee is something of a mismatch. It has the colours of a soldiers' Troddel with the closed silver tassels of the officers' portepee. In fact I would say that is a Wehrmacht (Heer) pattern knot. As a Fähnrich, he would have been entitled to the silver portepee with silver and black strap.

I can find no officer with name Kuiffer. Is it possibly Küpper? A Leutnant der Reserve of the name was serving in the regiment in 1914.

Regards
Glenn

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:02 pm 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:22 am
Posts: 437
Glennj wrote:
John,

an interesting conundrum. With regards to the number of companies in a Foot Artillery Regiment, I can confirm as at 1914 there were in fact eight in peacetime. Please see the extract for Fuß-Artillerie-Regiment Nr. 8 for 1914 which shows the officers assigned to that company.

The Portepee is something of a mismatch. It has the colours of a soldiers' Troddel with the closed silver tassels of the officers' portepee. In fact I would say that is a Wehrmacht (Heer) pattern knot. As a Fähnrich, he would have been entitled to the silver portepee with silver and black strap.

I can find no officer with name Kuiffer. Is it possibly Küpper? A Leutnant der Reserve of the name was serving in the regiment in 1914.

Regards
Glenn


Glenn,
His name could have been Kuiffer, Kuffer, Kuisser, Kusser, Kuipper, Kupper, etc. My friend and I did the best we could and we both decided that it mostly resembled Kuiffer. The writing is obviously rapidly done and scribbled. My friend in Munich is much more adept at reading German script so I trusted his word.
A Fahnrich is entitled to wear an officer's knot and the strap is the same color as the knot. I'm not sure what you are saying in regards to the Portapee. It may be a replacement. I got it with the sword when I got the set. Please explain, I am interested to know.
It is interesting to find out that there were 8 Batteries in a Fussartillerie battalion in 1914. I, however, have absolutely no idea when this officer served. There are two Kokarden on his Pickelhaube, so, at least, he became a Fahnrich after 1897. I'm sure the 8th artillery regiment rotated officers, as did we.

John :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:09 am 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:45 am
Posts: 1646
Location: Belgium
Great find!

Adler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:39 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:35 am
Posts: 645
Location: United Kingdom
John,

Please find below from left to right illustrations of:

Prussian officers' portepee.
Imperial troddel for an 8th company.
Later Reichswehr (post 1928)/Wehrmacht pattern troddel for an 8th company.

The Fähnrich as well as senior non-commissioned officers (Feldwebel/Vizefeldwebel etc.) wore the officers' portepee.

I have checked every edition of the Prussian army list from 1897 to 1914 plus the Ehrenrangliste which further shows wartime commissions; No Kuiffer. Küpper is therefore a possibility. If it is indeed the helmet of Herr Küpper, then this was the helmet of a Vizefeldwebel der Reserve upgraded with the officers' Perlring.

Regards
Glenn

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:33 pm 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:22 am
Posts: 437
Glennj wrote:
John,

Please find below from left to right illustrations of:

Prussian officers' portepee.
Imperial troddel for an 8th company.
Later Reichswehr (post 1928)/Wehrmacht pattern troddel for an 8th company.

The Fähnrich as well as senior non-commissioned officers (Feldwebel/Vizefeldwebel etc.) wore the officers' portepee.

I have checked every edition of the Prussian army list from 1897 to 1914 plus the Ehrenrangliste which further shows wartime commissions; No Kuiffer. Küpper is therefore a possibility. If it is indeed the helmet of Herr Küpper, then this was the helmet of a Vizefeldwebel der Reserve upgraded with the officers' Perlring.

Regards
Glenn


Glenn,
I see what you mean about the Troddel. It is obviously not correct. I'll begin looking for a proper one soon. Is there a difference between a WW1 and a WW2 Officer's Portapee? I have seen these with two silver stripes (in thread) or three silver stripes (also in thread).

Since I bought these items from a family who had long since lost interest, and not a dealer, the Portapee issue was likely not altered by them and it went unnoticed by me.

The helmet is a completely proper Pickelhaube for a Fahnrich. We could have gotten the name wrong when we were studying it. We did seek outside assistance from Herr Spaten and Miss St. Pauli Girl so the possibilities of a mistake are endless. Since a Fahnrich would not enjoy a full commission is it possible that he would not be listed among the regular officers?
Here is the best photo I can get of the name:

Image

I suppose that it is also possible that the unit, 8th Fussartillerie, was misidentified because of the pipe. I have a beer stein from Berlin, but I never served there. I just couldn't find a good Beer Stein that said Okinawa, Kuwait, or Iraq!

John :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:55 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:55 pm
Posts: 597
Location: belgium
Nice group you got your hands on ,interesting to find these at all

Jonas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:02 am 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:31 pm
Posts: 736
Location: EU
Nice find :thumb up:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:09 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:54 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: Netherlands
Looks great!

Thanks for sharing :D

Best regards,

Edwin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 8th Foot Artillery Fahnrich, Metz
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:08 am 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:22 am
Posts: 437
I have found a proper Portapee for Fahnrich Kuiffer's sword:

Image

Image


All I need to find out now is his actual Fussartillerie unit.

John :)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: