It is currently Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:54 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: A little help please...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:50 pm 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:02 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Smyrna, Tennessee
I have a Garde helmet shell that I'm starting a restoration on soon and I have a couple of questions. No photos at this point, but I don't really need any for the following questions:

First, there are two stamps on the rear visor - Fd.A.R. (field artillery regiment I believe) on one side and K.B.A.G. 1915 on the other side. No other marks at all. Does this indicate a Garde artillery regiment?

Second, the M91 side posts are brass as are the grommets around the holes for the front plate. Is brass acceptable on a 1915 dated helmet? I think the answer is yes but I want other opinions. There are no double-holes or other obvious "doctored" problems that I can see.

Third, if it is an artillery helmet then which rear spine is correct - vented or non-vented? I know most artillery 'haubes' are non-vented but I seem to recall a change toward the end of pickelhaube production that allowed for vents on all issued helmets.

Thanks in advance for your opinions/help.

Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:24 pm 
Offline
Departed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Posts: 2549
I'll give it a go.

KBAG = Kriegs Bekleidungsamt Garde

Not at all unusual to find an M15 (grey fittings) with brass M91 side posts and grommets. They used up old stocks after the 1915 and 1916 AKO. Often, however, that indicates a pre-1915 made helmet that has been refurbished to the 1915 regulations. I like these.

The rear spines in brass it seems were standardized in 1914, and all eventually had rear vents. If its steel, then of course, it will have a vent.

_________________
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:49 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 6329
Location: San Antonio TX
Quote:
. Does this indicate a Garde artillery regiment?


No. It could be or perhaps not. Just a regiment Serviced by the Army corps area of KBAG = Kriegs Bekleidungsamt Garde

_________________
VR/Joe
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:37 pm 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:02 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Smyrna, Tennessee
Thanks Tony and Joe. That clears it up a little. I should note a garde eagle fits perfectly. So I am confident it is from a garde unit. I suppose my last questions are: spike or kugel? Brass or steel fittings? I do my best to put a helmet back to its original configuration because I abhor fakes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:55 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:25 pm
Posts: 6329
Location: San Antonio TX
Kugel

_________________
VR/Joe
www.pickelhauben.net
The British philosopher and historian R.G. Colligwood said, "it is not
the facts that are interesting in history, but the questions and their
answers - and these can never be fixed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:02 am 
Offline
Elite Member
Elite Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 3386
Location: Wisconsin
richesz28 wrote:
Thanks Tony and Joe. That clears it up a little. I should note a garde eagle fits perfectly. So I am confident it is from a garde unit. I suppose my last questions are: spike or kugel? Brass or steel fittings? I do my best to put a helmet back to its original configuration because I abhor fakes.


Other than the Kugel question, some photos would be helpful for the rest.

:D Ron

_________________
I really do need to know more about this....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:14 am 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:54 pm
Posts: 1695
Location: Netherlands
poniatowski wrote:
Other than the Kugel question, some photos would be helpful for the rest.

:D Ron


I agree :D

Regards,

Edwin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:53 pm 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:02 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Smyrna, Tennessee
I'm beginning a restoration of this helmet this weekend, so I will take photos as it moves along. It's going to require a lot of work (I'm looking forward to it). My question about brass or steel fittings really relates to the AKO of September 21, 1915. My helmet is marked KBAG 1915. Does the 1915 date indicate this helmet was retrofitted to steel by the Garde repair depot? Or, were brass helmets still in use up to this AKO date. I'm trying to figure this out because I have almost all of the pieces for this helmet in brass and it would be awfully nice use them instead of beginning a search for steel fittings, which will be harder to find.

I do need a kugel for it though, so if anyone has one for sale or trade please let me know.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 4066
Location: Ontario CN
I would suggest that you look at the grommets in the wappen holes....are they brass, steel or have they been removed entirely? The grommet is perhaps the best thing to look at when deciding on fittings. These are not easily removed without damaging the helmet and they are original to the helmet when manufactured.. The rule I use is.... steel grommets, then Steel M15 fittings. Brass grommets and M15 fittings, still acceptable as they converted many M95 to M15 especially if they were repaired. No grommets then steel fittings apply. Brass grommets were often removed when the M95 was converted to M15 fittings. Steel grommets with brass M95 fittings is unacceptable and tells me the piece has been "doctored" by some dealer or collector in order to increase sale price or make it look nicer. In my experience, no M95 or earlier haube was ever produced without brass grommets and this includes the ones with neusilber fittings. For our newer collectors....there were 3 reasons for the German Army to convert M95's to M15 fittings..... the brass shortage, the dismountable M15 spike to reduce one's profile and the grey M15 matte finish does not "shine" like brass.

_________________
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:04 pm 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:06 pm
Posts: 426
I have a helmet (actually a shell, no fittings) that has brass grommets and is dated 1918.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:12 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 4066
Location: Ontario CN
Wow, that is a rarity! I always get nervous when making these "pickelhaube declarations", I try to begin with....in my opinion, in my experience etc because as sure as anything, someone is going to come up with an exception just as you have done. I think we all know by now, that the only certainty in haube collecting is that....nothing is certain. My thanks for your reply. :)

_________________
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: A little help please...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:30 pm 
Offline
Departed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Posts: 2549
Any M15 Friedens-Uniform Pickelhaube of any pattern will have brass or Neusilber grommets.

_________________
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: