Officer Helme KIR 145

[b.loree]

Today, another piece from Steve's collection IR 145 officer:


"Note this is NOT a Grenadier eagle with no star but a Garde eagle with no star." The wappen was changed when this Regt had Koenig added to its title. You can see the outline of the original wappen still on the shell.
As we expand this thread with further examples, it appears that there is some confusion as to the date of this wappen change :-? :
Jim Turinetti: July 20, 1890
James LeBrasseur: June 16, 1913....I suspect that James Leb. may be wrong as Steve's M95, dated 1906 has the KIR 145 ink stamp on it. So, to me the "K" would indicate the Regt title change has already occured.
An M95 KIR 145 from Steve's collection:

Note the regular line Grenadier wappen on this piece....S hilt and Acorn topped sceptre.

As well as this named clothing tag, there is a faint KIR 145 ink stamp on the rear visor.

The Kaiser poses with the officers of KIR 145 May 11, 1914. Note His Majesty is not wearing the new wappen nor are some of the other officers in this photo.
My next question, why was IR 145 awarded this special "Koenig" title to their Regt name? :???:

 

[SkipperJohn]

Stunning helmet!
Absolutely beautiful!

John :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

 

[b.loree]

Some additional KIR145 pieces from steve's collection:

A Bambus style filz helme with rolled edges

 

[b.loree]

Another KIR 145 helmet: Landwehr officer piece from Jim Turinetti's collection:

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

wow that is a cool helmet.

James

 

[argonne]

As we expand this thread with further examples, it appears that there is some confusion as to the date of this wappen change :-? :
Jim Turinetti: July 20, 1890
James LeBrasseur: June 16, 1913....I suspect that James Leb. may be wrong as Steve's M95, dated 1906 has the KIR 145 ink stamp on it. So, to me the "K" would indicate the Regt title change has already occured.

"Das Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 145 wurde durch Allerhöchste Kabinetts-Order vom 28.Juli 1890 im Zuge der Heeresvermehrung zum 1.Oktober 1890 gegründet und aufgestellt. Am 4. September 1893 erklärte sich Seine Majestät der Kaiser und König gelegentlich einer Parade auf dem Exerzierplatz Frescati "in Anerkennung der guten Haltung des Regimentes" zu seinem Chef, verlieh ihm den Namenszug "WR II", den es nunmehr auf den Achselklappen und Schulterstücken anstatt der Nummer 145 trug und gab ihm den Namen: Königs-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 145."

The name "König" was added to the unit number on the 4.9.1893. But this is NOT the date of change of Wappen that happened September 1913!!!

TWO DIFFERENT THINGS AND DATES!!

Kaiser Wilhelm decided to add the name "König" to the regiments name because of its "gute Haltung" (good stance, attitude) after a parade on the 4.9.1893.

Philippe
:wink:

 

[b.loree]

Thank you Philippe for clearing up my confusion, :-? I totally understand now! All is clear.

 

[edwin]

Nice helmets.

Regards,

Edwin

 

[KIR145]

Today, another piece from Steve's collection IR 145 officer:

"Note this is NOT a Grenadier eagle with no star but a Garde eagle with no star." The wappen was changed when this Regt had Koenig added to its title. You can see the outline of the original wappen still on the shell.
As we expand this thread with further examples, it appears that there is some confusion as to the date of this wappen change :-? :
Jim Turinetti: July 20, 1890
James LeBrasseur: June 16, 1913....I suspect that James Leb. may be wrong as Steve's M95, dated 1906 has the KIR 145 ink stamp on it. So, to me the "K" would indicate the Regt title change has already occured.

Note the regular line Grenadier wappen on this piece....S hilt and Acorn topped sceptre.

As well as this named clothing tag, there is a faint KIR 145 ink stamp on the rear visor.

The Kaiser poses with the officers of KIR 145 May 11, 1914. Note His Majesty is not wearing the new wappen nor are some of the other officers in this photo.
My next question, why was IR 145 awarded this special "Koenig" title to their Regt name? :???:

Hello, great officer helmet - with the "Garde-Adler ohne Stern" (Guard eagle without star since June 1913) - as Philippe you still told!
Thank you and best regards, Jens

Here a picture with this kind of emblem.: Herman von der Heyde
... and a picture for Mannschaft - you see he is wearing the "normal" Grenadier-Adler (neuer Art).

 

[KAGGR#1]

Thanks for the photos and information
Steve

 

[KIR145]

....
View attachment 11332
The Kaiser poses with the officers of KIR 145 May 11, 1914. Note His Majesty is not wearing the new wappen nor are some of the other officers in this photo.
My next question, why was IR 145 awarded this special "Koenig" title to their Regt name? :???:

Hi, yes - the Kaiser wearing the wrong helmet.
When the Emperor in 1914 visit the Inf.-Rgt.145 in Metz, the valet de chambre took out the false helmet (with the old emblem) for the Kaiser. The regiment took it with humor, probably the Kaiser was not so amused!?
Best regards, Jens

Here the menu and the IR145 plates.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Excellent post !
Many thanks
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Hello, great officer helmet - with the "Garde-Adler ohne Stern" (Guard eagle without star since June 1913) - as Philippe you still told!
Thank you and best regards, Jens

Here a picture with this kind of emblem.: Herman von der Heyde
... and a picture for Mannschaft - you see he is wearing the "normal" Grenadier-Adler (neuer Art).

Jens
Excellent post
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Hi, yes - the Kaiser wearing the wrong helmet.
When the Emperor in 1914 visit the Inf.-Rgt.145 in Metz, the valet de chambre took out the false helmet (with the old emblem) for the Kaiser. The regiment took it with humor, probably the Kaiser was not so amused!?
Best regards, Jens

Here the menu and the IR145 plates.

Those plates are very special !
Steve

 

[KAGGR#1]

Another KIR 145 helmet: Landwehr officer piece from Jim Turinetti's collection:
View attachment 11328
View attachment 11329
View attachment 11327

Please note that Jim's helmet has the front plate with the Grenadier artichoke. So I think it to be a reserve officer of a Grenadier regiment .My helmet front plate is a true Garde eagle without the star .Note the small eagle.
Steve

 

[Sandmann]

"DasInfanterie-Regiment Nr. 145 wurde durch Allerhöchste Kabinetts-Order vom 28.Juli 1890 im Zuge der Heeresvermehrung zum 1.Oktober 1890 gegründet und aufgestellt. Am 4. September 1893 erklärte sich Seine Majestät der Kaiser und König gelegentlich einer Parade auf dem Exerzierplatz Frescati "in Anerkennung der guten Haltung des Regimentes" zu seinem Chef, verlieh ihm den Namenszug "WR II", den es nunmehr auf den Achselklappen und Schulterstücken anstatt der Nummer 145 trug und gab ihm den Namen: Königs-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 145."

The name "König" was added to the unit number on the 4.9.1893. But this is NOT the date of change of Wappen that happened September 1913!!!

TWO DIFFERENT THINGS AND DATES!!

Kaiser Wilhelm decided to add the name "König" to the regiments name because of its "gute Haltung" (good stance, attitude) after a parade on the 4.9.1893.

Philippe

A small correction, as the date for the introduction of the name „Königs-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 145“ wasn‘t 4.9.1893, but 27.9.1893.

Introduction of the name „König“ on 27.9.1893 (Source: Armee-Verordnungsblatt 1893):


Introduction of black the hair bush on 18.10.1895 (Source: Armee-Verordnungsblatt 1895):


Introduction of the Guard eagle without star on 16.6.1913 (Source: Armee-Verordnungsblatt 1913):

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Very nice helmets. Born and living in Metz, I am particularly interested in the KIR145. I've been studying the problem for several decades...
Thanks to Philippe for clarifying the confusion between the name ‘Konig’ and the attribution of the Great Eagle with gliding wings.
As for the big eagle with gliding wings, the allocation was made just before mobilisation, so many soldiers went into the field with the simple eagle of the line.

 

[KAGGR#1]

Pretty sure that I have posted these photos before
but while we are on the subject of KIR145
here are my 2 enlisted examples
before the new front plate 1906
and with the new plate
Steve

 

[CLOVIS 57]

I will develop the different variants:
---Guard eagle without Guards star and
---Grenadier eagle


The eagle of the Guard has a 4-fold Vaterlandbandeau. Left wing ‘mit Gott, für Koenig’ right wing ‘und Vaterland’. Eagle breast without banner. This is so that the ‘Koenig’ is not hidden under the Guards star.



The Grenadier eagle has a 5-ply Vaterlandbandeau.
Left wing ‘mit Gott für’ Poitrail “Koenig” right wing ‘und Vaterland’.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

But...
things get complicated with certain “hybrid” models.
That is to say, with an S-shaped sword cross but a sceptre eaglet or vice versa!

None of the 3 DR3 (Grenadier zu Pferde) have an identical eagle.

S-shaped crossed sword with little Eagle on the sceptre.



-butterfly crossed sword, acanthus knob end of sceptre. -no photo.



-Cross of sword in butterfly, aiglon of end of sceptre. This belongs to the Garde-Adler, and yet it is a Grenadier-Adler, with the "Koenig" of the breast.