1853/60 Kürassier helmet - Kürassier Regiment Königin (Pommersches) Nr.2

K

koeniggratz

New member
Greetings,

I wonder what the model of my wappen is. It looks like a model M60 with additional badeau. Am i right? The writing on the bandeau says "Hohenfriedberg 4 Juni 1745" so that points to Kürassier Regiment Königin (Pommersches) Nr.2

Some info about the helmet: Left cockade was added later. Right cockade measures 73mm, the brass trim is 9mm wide, so according to this I think it should be M1853/60 and not M1862.

Your advice is greatly appretiated.
Thank you.

Koeniggratz
 

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That’s wonderful!

So it’s actually a bit of everything, which is what makes Metalhelme so special.
The shell is an 1843, in the smallest size with the “ovoid” shape (egg shape). The visor has been moved inside plus threaded chinscale bolts, so altered sometime after 1853. Then the Fatherland Bandeau added sometime after 1860.

Wonderful helmet.
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
That’s wonderful!

So it’s actually a bit of everything, which is what makes Metalhelme so special.
The shell is an 1843, in the smallest size with the “ovoid” shape (egg shape). The visor has been moved inside plus threaded chinscale bolts, so altered sometime after 1853. Then the Fatherland Bandeau added sometime after 1860.

Wonderful helmet.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much, i had no idea the shell was 1843.
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
I did not actually answer your question about the eagle. That is an 1860 pattern eagle, which already has the Fatherland Bandeau stamped in. You can tell because it does not have the Schwarzenegger arms of the 1842 eagles.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I thought so. Btw how could you tell, that the shell is from the model 1843?
 
Somewhere there is an article (Georg Peschke?) that described how the smallest size ovoid shaped shell was only produced on the 1843, and modified repeatedly. However, I cannot find it, so 1853 as Sandy suggests is more accurate.
 
Tony, you know my knowledge is mainly based on the article „Die Bekleidung und Ausrüstung der preussischen Kürassiere von 1809 - 1918“ you mentioned. It really is an exceptionally well-founded article that really leaves no questions unanswered. And you are right that the ovoid shaped shell was only produced on the M1843. But regarding the M1853, the text also states that the only difference between the M1843 and the M1853 was the attachment of the front visor, which was now attached from the inside, as water dripped into the wearer's face through the gap between the helmet shell and outside attached front visor when it rained. The text continues verbatim: “Alle Maße und Einzelheiten des Musters M1843 blieben sonst unverändert, sowohl beim Mannschafts- als auch beim Offiziershelm (All dimensions and details of the model M1843 otherwise remained unchanged, both for the enlisted man's and the officer's helmet).”

IMG_0960.jpeg
 
A nice helmet. Would love to find me such an older pattern. Especially the Kürassier "Königin" (Pommersches) Nr.2
-Thank you Tony and Sandy for your info.
 
koeniggratz said:
Greetings,

I wonder what the model of my wappen is. It looks like a model M60 with additional badeau. Am i right? The writing on the bandeau says "Hohenfriedberg 4 Juni 1745" so that points to Kürassier Regiment Königin (Pommersches) Nr.2

Some info about the helmet: Left cockade was added later. Right cockade measures 73mm, the brass trim is 9mm wide, so according to this I think it should be M1853/60 and not M1862.

Your advice is greatly appretiated.
Thank you.

Koeniggratz
Click to expand...
Do you see Regiment/Eskadron/Kammer [Quartermaster] markings in the shell beneath the Kokarden? Thank you!
 
Sandmann said:
M1843 and M1853 had the same helmet shell. But in 1853 the front visor was modified so that it was attached to the helmet shell from the inside. This makes your helmet an M1853 in my opinion, which was modified in 1860 when the Fatherlands Banner was added to the eagle.
historien-kabinett.de

Development history of metal Pickelhaube

historien-kabinett.de historien-kabinett.de
Click to expand...
That's interesting! My front visor is attached from the inside.

I also recently picked up a 1862-dated and unit marked Kürass a couple of months ago.
 
67304234531__D3C690FB-C755-44A5-92C2-EC270B6EBAE7.jpeg67304245427__39F1F544-2E69-465A-9F31-AB0EBD0E3354.jpeg67304239171__CF32BBE0-083F-4CE4-8A9A-EEDF97963D2F.jpegIMG_8200.jpeg
Before and after of an 1853 officer with the visor on the outside. This visor was not fixed onto the helmet. It was held in by stud screws. I’m thinking this was because it was supposed to be actively adjusted by the owner. Any thoughts?
 
Tony without Kaiser said:
That’s wonderful!

So it’s actually a bit of everything, which is what makes Metalhelme so special.
The shell is an 1843, in the smallest size with the “ovoid” shape (egg shape). The visor has been moved inside plus threaded chinscale bolts, so altered sometime after 1853. Then the Fatherland Bandeau added sometime after 1860.

Wonderful helmet.
Click to expand...
Tony
Question
No black paint in the motto banner ?
Steve
 
Sorry that I answer for Tony, but there are traces of black paint on some edges. If you look closely at the "H" or the "f", for example, the black paint is just gone today.
 
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