Cockades

[Cop_Out]

Hi folks,
Is it correct to say a pickelhaube will have a state cockade on one side and a national cockade on the other? Also, the state cockade must match the wappen?
Thanks in advance,
Tom

 

[HatEnjoyer]

Hi folks,
Is it correct to say a pickelhaube will have a state cockade on one side and a national cockade on the other? Also, the state cockade must match the wappen?
Thanks in advance,
Tom

Yes, pickelhaubes post 1897 have one state cockade and one national cockade. The state cockade must match the wappen.

 

[b.loree]

Prior to 1897 only one state kokarde was worn on the right side of the helmet. In 1897 the Reich kokarde was introduced and so we now have two kokarden , Reich above the right ear and the state on the left.

 

[b.loree]

In 1891 the side posts for chin straps and scales were introduced . Pre 1891 kokarden have small holes while post 1891 have larger holes to fit over the M91 posts.

 

[Cop_Out]

Thanks, @HatEnjoyer and @b.loree !
It seems like there are many small details I must learn!
Best,
Tom

 

[b.loree]

Yes Tom, you are right on that comment. I would really encourage you and every new collector to visit "The Kaisers Bunker" Tony Schnurr's website and study the mass of information presented there. His detailed description of the evolution of the Pickelhaube from 1842 is excellent and he provides great photos of the pieces from his collection to illustrate the different changes and models of our helmets.

 

[Sandmann]

Hope this will help: https://historien-kabinett.de/History-of-the-pickelhauben-cockades

 

[Khukri]

Hope this will help: https://historien-kabinett.de/History-of-the-pickelhauben-cockades

Excellent

 

[dave mosher]

Hope this will help: https://historien-kabinett.de/History-of-the-pickelhauben-cockades

Good information, but I would disagree with the separate distinction between the officer cockade and NCO w/ portepee. NCOs w/o portepee could upgrade their cockades after 1897 with the older-style smaller single rib ring. Also, I have never seen the officer double rib ring before the introduction of the national cockade in 1897.

Dave

 

[Cop_Out]

Yes Tom, you are right on that comment. I would really encourage you and every new collector to visit "The Kaisers Bunker" Tony Schnurr's website and study the mass of information presented there. His detailed description of the evolution of the Pickelhaube from 1842 is excellent and he provides great photos of the pieces from his collection to illustrate the different changes and models of our helmets.

I think I saw that site. The man had a dog named, Kaiser. Thanks for the advice, sir!

 

[Cop_Out]

Hope this will help: https://historien-kabinett.de/History-of-the-pickelhauben-cockades

Thank you, sir!

 

[b.loree]

Yes Tom go to that site. Tony is an important part of our administration here on the forum.

 

[Jeff R]

I think I saw that site. The man had a dog named, Kaiser. Thanks for the advice, sir!

Can't second this one enough. Tony's site is by far one of the most useful, authoritative, and complete sources for Imperial German research and information out there. It's an outstanding resource.

And Sandy's entire site is a treasure trove of information as well. https://historien-kabinett.de/Home

 

[John Josef]

Can't second this one enough. Tony's site is by far one of the most useful, authoritative, and complete sources for Imperial German research and information out there. It's an outstanding resource.

And Sandy's entire site is a treasure trove of information as well. https://historien-kabinett.de/Home

I totally agree it's like having the best of reference books all at one place and at your fingertips. Hats off to these guys for taking all that time and putting them together, just excellent resources.

Certainly, wish I had resources like them when I started collecting

 

[Cop_Out]

Everyone here is very friendly, thanks for that!

 

[Sandmann]

Good information, but I would disagree with the separate distinction between the officer cockade and NCO w/ portepee. NCOs w/o portepee could upgrade their cockades after 1897 with the older-style smaller single rib ring. Also, I have never seen the officer double rib ring before the introduction of the national cockade in 1897.

Dave

Hi Dave, in my opinion these cockades were not yet worn by all officers, but they came up around 1867/71. And I have seen plausible officer helmets of the type M1867 or M1871 with such cockades.

German Spiked Helmet Pickelhaube Rank Identification

Cocardes et plaques de casques à pointe

Cocardes et plaques de casques à pointe (Pickelhaube). De la Prusse au duché d'Oldenbourg, les basiques pour bien comprendre quelle unité portait quelle cocarde et quelle plaque.

terra-culturae.e-monsite.com

https://www.pickelhaubes.com/xf/threads/1870s-prussian-garde-officer.17473/#post-125691

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Yes, up to the M 1871 officer's helmet model, the unique Landkokarde has a single ribbed crown. The double-ribbed crown only appeared after 1871. In 1867, the “Porteepee” cockade was 51mm in diameter, with a single ribbed crown.