field Gray Bavarian (Feldpriester) Field priest peaked cap

[The Infanterist]

Hey everyone I hope you are all doing good this is a example of a Bavarian private purchase Field priest peaked cap from my collection.

At the moment I'm still trying to find out who the original owner of this peace was. Hope you enjoy.

 

[The Infanterist]

Hey everyone I'm new to the Forum I'm a collector from Germany that specializes on Imperial German artifacts I'm excited to share some more of my collection in the fourth. I hope you enjoy my second post.

 

[Steve Nick]

It's good to have you with us.

I think that cap is quite special, and this one is in very good condition. I also like that picture.

I recently bid on a crucifix that was advertised as an Imperial German Chaplin's, but I dropped out of the bidding as I had no way of knowing if it was really used in the field, and it went for more money than I was comfortable with. It was very similar to the one in your picture.

Is there any way of identifying a military used crucifix? Or were they all privately purchased by the individual priests?

Thanks for posting this.

 

[The Infanterist]

It's good to have you with us.

I think that cap is quite special, and this one is in very good condition. I also like that picture.

I recently bid on a crucifix that was advertised as an Imperial German Chaplin's, but I dropped out of the bidding as I had no way of knowing if it was really used in the field, and it went for more money than I was comfortable with. It was very similar to the one in your picture.

Is there any way of identifying a military used crucifix? Or were they all privately purchased by the individual priests?

Thanks for posting this.

From my knowledge most of them were private purchased and they were just brought from home so civilian ones. The majority of priests were self-dressers (selbst ankleider) so that means that they had to rely on their local Church communities to collect money for them to purchase uniform items Etc
If you mind me asking how much did the crucifix go for?

 

[Steve Nick]

From my knowledge most of them were private purchased and they were just brought from home so civilian ones. The majority of priests were self-dressers (selbst ankleider) so that means that they had to rely on their local Church communities to collect money for them to purchase uniform items Etc
If you mind me asking how much did the crucifix go for?

Thanks for that information which confirms what I was thinking.

The crucifix I bid on appeared to be a high quality item, but I was able to find several pictures of similar crosses on the internet, so I stopped bidding at $150 Cdn. How much higher it went, I don't know.

 

[Jeff R]

Those are very rare, and that might be nicest example I've seen! Thanks for sharing. I would love to see the inside if you get a chance.

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm II]

Incredible peaked cap! Thank you dearly for sharing this piece.

 

[John Josef]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

I'm certain Priest caps were Purple sadly yours looks blue which was used for transport also the cross used on the priest cap was made of silver with a white enamel cross.

I hate to be the bearer of the bad news so I'll just post a few pictures and I'm sure you will see the difference immediately.

The first picture is from my collection to show the color difference used. Transport cap on left and armband of a Priest on the right which used the same purple color as the caps and tunic trim.

MFG and again welcome to the forum John Josef

100% Original Priest Armband and transport EM cap.




100 % Original Priest cap


Your cap original cap for transport troops with unknown cross added.


Same as yours as Bavarian Transport officers cap

100% Original Priest Uniform showing very distinct purple color and armband.

 

[The Infanterist]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

I'm certain Priest caps were Purple sadly yours looks blue which was used for transport also the cross used on the priest cap was made of silver with a white enamel cross.

I hate to be the bearer of the bad news so I'll just post a few pictures and I'm sure you will see the difference immediately.

The first picture is from my collection to show the color difference used. Transport cap on left armband of a Priest which used the same purple color as the caps and tunic trim.

MFG and again welcome to the forum John Josef

100% Original Priest Armband and transport EM cap.


100 % Original Priest cap
View attachment 72980

Your cap original cap for transport troops with unknown cross added.
View attachment 72981

Same as yours as Bavarian Transport officers cap View attachment 72984

100% Original Priest Uniform showing very distinct purple color and armband.
View attachment 72982

really nice pictures Like I said in my post there was quite some variation since field priest where selbst an Kleider that means the they were primited and had to buy there own uniforms There was some standardization in weapon color Like you said, but sadly I took the pictures in the evening with my phone and the color is quite muted I'll try to get some better pictures in the future For the centerpiece the cross that's in your case Is early war and is enamelled.

This is an example from the Bavarian arms Museum and you can see that the lighting
is intentionally kept dark there you can see that the color is of the cap is darker.

 

[John Josef]

really nice pictures Like I said in my post there was quite some variation since field priest where selbst an Kleider that means the they were primited and had to buy there own uniforms There was some standardization in weapon color Like you said, but sadly I took the pictures in the evening with my phone and the color is quite muted I'll try to get some better pictures in the future For the centerpiece the cross that's in your case Is early war and is enamelled.

Sadly, private purchase is the number one term used to explain away the inconvenient. Personally, I always get nervous when someone especially a dealer is offering something for sale that doesn't fit with known originals and photos from the time and labels it as private purchase.

I'm not so sure about the variation or the private purchase can you please tell me where you received this information. I'm always interested in learning from period documents or accounts.

The one in Ingolstadt is a beauty for sure and no matter how dark they keep it that Purple just stands out to my eyes and looks exactly as it should.

Also, can you tell me where you found the information on the white enameled cross being the early war version.

I know there were distinct differences in the cross types worn by Catholic and Protestant clergy, but I've never heard or read this information about early or late versions or saw photos of it.

Thanks in advance for the information. John Josef

 

[Dane Jensen]

On behalf of our friend here are some clearer photos of the cap in better light.

Sadly, private purchase is the number one term used to explain away the inconvenient. Personally, I always get nervous when someone especially a dealer is offering something for sale that doesn't fit with known originals and photos from the time and labels it as private purchase.

I'm not so sure about the variation or the private purchase can you please tell me where you received this information. I'm always interested in learning from period documents or accounts.

The one in Ingolstadt is a beauty for sure and no matter how dark they keep it that Purple just stands out to my eyes and looks exactly as it should.

Also, can you tell me where you found the information on the white enameled cross being the early war version.

I know there were distinct differences in the cross types worn by Catholic and Protestant clergy, but I've never heard or read this information about early or late versions or saw photos of it.

Thanks in advance for the information. John Josef

 

[John Josef]

Thanks, Dane, for the pictures in better lighting. If you talk to your friend, could you please ask him if he can share the information that I'm very interested in. I would really love to hear his source of that information maybe it's from a book I don't yet have or from a period document I haven't seen. Like everyone I'm always interested in learning from period source materials.

It may just be me and my eyes and I'm fine with that it certainly wouldn't be the first time I've disagreed with others on color no worries, but the color still looks a bit too dark to me.

It's more like the dark purple used by if I remember correctly an Uhlan Rgt and not the bright lighter shade of purple used for the clergy.

The Cross like I mentioned doesn't look like the other types I've seen worn, with that textured finish to me it looks more like a brooch or a piece of jewelry, but I could be wrong. Again, with some documentation I'd be happy add to my list of types used

I hope someone else with knowledge of the differences between the dark purple and purple used during the period will chime in but I'm almost positive there were two different shades.

Anyway, thanks for the photos and a nice-looking cap regardless.
MFG John Josef

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

[ My opinion here is incorrect. Please ignore ]

Agree with John Josef. That looks like a beautiful Ulanen Regt. Nr. 18 Schirmmütze. I have Kammer issued and stamped UR18 Krätzchen in that exact dark purple.

AKO of 21 September 1915 change of UR18 piping to dark purple. Probably thought it was a priest, and added a cross. I’m certain there is no intent to deceive, honest easy to make mistake. Visor has the correct Saxon Kokarde. Even with removed cross, it makes zero difference to value, that is a beautiful very rare cap. Colour charts HERE

 

[Jeff R]

This is a very interesting discussion, and one of the many reasons I love this forum.

I'd still want to see the interior, especially the construction behind the kokarden and cross. But all "Occam's Razer" style, I am still inclined to vote Feldgeistliche on this one. I suspect the "dark purple" for both chaplains and the UR18 was the same color. The cross is interesting, but it is scaled properly and these things being privately purchased there was a ton of variation (in a way that was less likely for regimentally distinct traditions badges). If the Bavarian officer's kokarde is original, it's likely the rest is as well IMO. (It's also probable that while both are rare, there were almost certainly far more chaplains out there than U18 officers. Tony's Kammer stamped UR18 Krätzchen must be eye-wateringly rare.)

Some nifty threads on this very obscure subject:

This one is a great collection of images of these guys. It's clear just how much variation there was in these caps.

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-german-soft-headgear/feldgeistlicher-headgear-period-photographs-533284/

This one has a few pictures of caps described as Feldgeistlicher:

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-german-soft-headgear/chaplain-headgear-677156/#post1755605

Whichever it is, it's a beautiful piece!

 

[ccj]

All very interesting. The link to the periodic photos indicate a variation of the central cap band. Some appear lighter, while others are darker. A result of the photography or a variation of the color purple? IDK… Is it possible the color/shade changed during the war similar to the transport colors?

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

My eyeballs are getting old. I withdraw my Ulanen purple thought. Completely wrong.

 

[ccj]

Was it personal preference to wear either the field cap or the M1913 hat? (Slouch hat)

 

[The Infanterist]

Hey everyone I'm back with some news really glad to see all the discussions about the cap Like some of you requested I will provide pictures of the inside sadly. I cannot show the back of all Cockades because they are sewn behind a layer of fabric But you can see a small strip of Reserve (Papier Brennessel Stoff) material where the Cockade seems to be attached on. i'm not very knowledgeable about the placement of cocakes on caps so like before I would appreciate all the help!

I contacted the local dealer that I bought it from And made him explain what this item is and he offered to take it back at the next convention with a full refund that I'm really glad about Still I need your guys' opinions on what this could be and if it's original or tempered with.


That in Germany in that time period there was three main religious Church groups Catholic, Evangelical and Protestant (katholisch evangelisch protestantisch). Because Martin Luthers (founders of German Protestantism) ideology of Christianity went against most of the Catholic and Evangelical values and symbols. So the material changed. The Protestant church was well established in the kingdom of Bavaria, having many followers.
About the cross he said that it's a Protestant cross rather than a traditional Catholic and Protestant cross.

From my knowledge about these caps I have neverhead about this before maybe some of you can tell me more ?
Thanks to everybody who contributed and helps to discover the truth about this item .

 

[Peter B]

I find these caps and the cross variations fascinating.

 

[Steve Nick]

Perhaps mistakenly, I've always been under the impression that Bavaria and the Southern German states were predominantly Catholic and the Northern states like Prussia were mostly Protestant.