I need an help about these my Saxon Helmet Model 1849 for Officers of Heavy Cavalry Regiments "Ritter"

[Franz]

Hello, I need some help regarding my Sachsen Helm Modell 1849 für Offiziere der schweren Reiter Regimenter (Saxon Helmet Model 1849 for Officers of Heavy Cavalry Regiments).

As you can see from the photos, it has several peculiarities.

• Firstly, the leather pieces under the medusa (referring to the side rosettes/escutcheons) are mounted behind the neck guard.
• The scaled chinstrap ) appears to be partially reconstructed/restored.
• The final section of the plume holder/crest is missing.
• The inner lining is also missing.

Aside from these issues, which could possibly be explained by historical field modifications or later alterations, the one thing that really concerns me is the leather shell of the helmet itself. It seems much more elongated than any picture I can find online.

Could this be a model preceding the 1849 pattern? Any other opinions?

 

[GardeUlan]

Congratulations, it’s a very beautiful helmet.

The only thing I noticed is that the leather holding the chinstraps together was replaced later, and at the back the cover with the palms is indeed missing. But that’s normal — you just have to keep the age in mind. The body is indeed a bit taller, but certainly not assembled from different parts.
The preceding model looked different. Unfortunately I don’t have a picture at hand.

I always like the old helmets from Saxony.

You‘ve a nice M 67, too.

Best wishes,

GardeUlan

Here you can see the comparison clearly.

#169, Sachsen Helm für Offiziere der Gardereiter Modell 1854 - 1867, SELTEN | eBay.de

Entdecke #169, Sachsen Helm für Offiziere der Gardereiter Modell 1854 - 1867, SELTEN in großer Auswahl ✓ Vergleichen Angebote und Preise ✓ Online kaufen bei eBay.de ✓ Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

 

[Franz]

My main concern is that the leather shell (calotte) is not original. The lining could be a personal modification of the wearer, but I would have to remove it to determine if the inner section is correct... and I would hate to do that

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello,
This model predates the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, so it's not from my period. However:
---In my opinion, this high shell is still a shell from Reiter's M1821. This helmet is modified M49, as it has the new crest without fur. The front plate is J.R., which stands for Jean I, who appeared in 1854. So your Saxon Reiter helmet is an M21/49/54.
The next Reiter helmet will be the one seen in the background at your place. The 1867 model is different:
---less ovoid shell, lower and more spherical.
---fur crest on top (chenille style).
---brass star plate and oval coat of arms of Saxony in nickel silver.
The next Reiter helmet will be the one seen in the background at your place. The 1867 model is different:
---less ovoid shell, lower and more spherical.
---fur crest on top (chenille style).
---brass star plate and oval coat of arms of Saxony in nickel silver.
I am more familiar with this one, as it saw action near my home in St-Privat-Gravelotte.
-

 

[GardeUlan]

Hello,
This model predates the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, so it's not from my period. However:
---In my opinion, this high shell is still a shell from Reiter's M1821. This helmet is modified M49, as it has the new crest without fur. The front plate is J.R., which stands for Jean I, who appeared in 1854. So your Saxon Reiter helmet is an M21/49/54.
The next Reiter helmet will be the one seen in the background at your place. The 1867 model is different:
---less ovoid shell, lower and more spherical.
---fur crest on top (chenille style).
---brass star plate and oval coat of arms of Saxony in nickel silver.
The next Reiter helmet will be the one seen in the background at your place. The 1867 model is different:
---less ovoid shell, lower and more spherical.
---fur crest on top (chenille style).
---brass star plate and oval coat of arms of Saxony in nickel silver.
I am more familiar with this one, as it saw action near my home in St-Privat-Gravelotte.
-

Are you sure? The M 1821 has a different helmet crest. The one on this helmet looks as if it had always been there.

I could of course be wrong; you would really need to have the piece in hand to judge it properly. It’s always difficult to tell just from a photo.”

For comparison lot 243.

Laden ...

my.page2flip.de

Best wishes,

GardeUlan

 

[Franz]

Seeing this model M21 , I note two things: the part above the ears (under the rosettes/escutcheons) is definitely more similar to my helmet. However, I still see a big difference in the height of the helmet shell. I also saw this model somewhere without a plume.... So, are you saying that it shouldn't be a completely altered piece, and that the shell is authentic? I am tempted to remove the padding/lining, which, incidentally, I have never seen on this model.

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Below, we can clearly see that the first one is an old M48 hull, while the other two are M67s.


As for the liner, it reminds me of a few other Saxon headdresses. Made of guilloché leather, I think it is a high-quality headdress, perhaps Eigentum.

 

[GardeUlan]

Hello,
This model predates the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, so it's not from my period. However:
---In my opinion, this high shell is still a shell from Reiter's M1821. This helmet is modified M49, as it has the new crest without fur. The front plate is J.R., which stands for Jean I, who appeared in 1854. So your Saxon Reiter helmet is an M21/49/54.
The next Reiter helmet will be the one seen in the background at your place. The 1867 model is different:
---less ovoid shell, lower and more spherical.
---fur crest on top (chenille style).
---brass star plate and oval coat of arms of Saxony in nickel silver.
The next Reiter helmet will be the one seen in the background at your place. The 1867 model is different:
---less ovoid shell, lower and more spherical.
---fur crest on top (chenille style).
---brass star plate and oval coat of arms of Saxony in nickel silver.
I am more familiar with this one, as it saw action near my home in St-Privat-Gravelotte.
-

These are better pictures of your helmet. Sure it is taller, but still it looks good.

Hermann Historica

www.hermann-historica.de

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Thank you, Garde Ulan, for showing us the same helmet, which confirms what I had tried to identify. That will make François very happy.

 

[Franz]

Hello, yes, it is exactly the same, I confess I took it from Hermann... he fact remains that it actually resembles almost none of the others I've seen.

 

[Franz]

Hi, I'm asking if anyone has pictures or knows the model in question. What would be the difference between an officer's helmet and a trooper's helmet? Perhaps the height itself?"