Isn't this the wrong plate?

I bought this helmet from Weitze while I visited his shop in Homburg in Dec 2007. Helmut told me that he had gotten the helmet from a family (the owner's family???) and that to the best of his knowledge it was authentic.
There were only four officers who wore this style helmet, and for less than 10 years. I didn't know of any other unit that took a silver eagle with the Fuerst banner, so I thought it was probably an issue of expedience to get a silver plate. A friend and fellow collector in Tennesee has one of these helmets also, only his has the Fuerst banner. After I had owned this helmet for a few years, and went through many of the thoughts and observations that you all have posted in this thread, I decided to return the helmet to Helmut. There were no questions asked and he graciously took the helmet back without any problems. Helmut Weitze is a class act and an ethical businessman, but as with any of these items we have a responsibility to know what we're doing and use all of our knowledge and skill when we acquire something.
I've asked Joe to post some photos that I took of the back side of this plate. There is no question that this is a Koenig plate.
Jim Turinetti
 
Hey Joe,

Interesting to see the completely different designs of the skulls on those plates! I would guess the bottom is earlier???? It's certainly more stylized than the other. Were different sized skulls used on other headgear, such as Mutze?

Ron
 
poniatowski said:
//Were different sized skulls used on other headgear, such as Mutze? //
Click to expand...

Two basic patterns for Mütze: issue or private purchase. There are several patterns of private purchase, small eyes, tear-drop Husaren eyes... Some HERE.
 
Hey Ron, did you anticipate what an avalanche you caused by posting this thread?? :o :D
Better than the best suspense movie!!!

Thank you Joe and Tony for posting some picts of the backside of an IR 92 Adler. =D> Never saw that before, eagle chest without FR! Interesting!! :thumb up:

By the way, does someone have photos of the back of an IR 92 Reserve or Landwehr Wappen Eagle, officer or/and issued? Which Reserve or Landwehr units did have worn the IR 92 skull and running horse plate?
I think RIR 92 and LIR 92 did not. Am I right to suppose that II RIR73 + II RIR78 + III LIR74 + II LIR78 did that?

Philippe :salute:
 
More about IR 92 helmets unscrupulous fakes :violent1: :

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Philippe :salute:
 
By the way, does someone have photos of the back of an IR 92 Reserve or Landwehr Wappen Eagle, officer or/and issued? Which Reserve or Landwehr units did have worn the IR 92 skull and running horse plate?
I think RIR 92 and LIR 92 did not. Am I right to suppose that II RIR73 + II RIR78 + III LIR74 + II LIR78 did that?
Click to expand...

Click for large view - Uploaded with Skitch

This is Landwehr officer with a running horse. My understanding is that this plate including the enamel stayed in use for the Landwehr the entire time. Pictures without helmet covers for the listed units are elusive.
 
I desperately want one of these helmets, but it would have to be "right". What is the story on the strange other pattern of skull shown above? Are they legit?
 
I have been reading this thread with great interest. I stumbled across this one , which also doesn't have the fuerst covered.



Best regards,
Michel
 
Where did you 'stumble' upon it? Is it for sale? Can I get it for my collection? Is there a spike? Am I asking too many questions? :wink: Honestly though, nice example even sans spike, thanks for sharing.

Oh, Philippe, no I didn't think it would bring up so much discussion, I thought I'd get one answer like "Yup, wrong plate" or something similar... Glad to have stimulated some conversation during what was otherwise a rather bland week.

:D Ron
 
poniatowski said:
Hey Joe,

Interesting to see the completely different designs of the skulls on those plates! I would guess the bottom is earlier???? It's certainly more stylized than the other.
Click to expand...
Ron:

The peculiar Totenkopf device in the second photo is identical to one pictured on page 159 of The Pickelhaube by J. A. Bowman (yes, that Bowman). The same odd pattern, albeit mounted on a Landwehr eagle, appears on page 324 of Bowman Volume 2 with the following description:

Whilst there were genuine variations of the Brunswick insignia, this style of skull and crossbones insignia is the most frequently used reproduction with a rounded face and double set of teeth and indented nostrils. Instead of looking straight ahead the eyes are inclined to the right (the reader's left). Also one of the crossed bones is inverted.

I can't say whether Bowman made the right call here, but it is bizarre for that skull to have a full set of lower mashers sans jawbone.

As for the example posted by Michel, I don't like it. It looks very similar to the electroformed reproductions currently being made by der Kammerbulle:

http://www.kammerbulle.de/IR92.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When you zoom in on the photo posted by Michel there are numerous galvano artifacts (bumps created by air bubbles) in the Peninsula Band. I wouldn't buy it without and encyclopedia of close-up photos and a return privilege.

Chas
 
Michel pm'd me and stated that the seller thinks the skull may be a repro and I believe the seller is correct as well. I didn't notice the marks earlier and without Michel's heads up and this thread (as well as the others dealing with this), I never would have! So, THANKS Pickelhaube-ers! Like I've said before, this site is very, very valuable and everybody who collects should be a member!

:D Ron
 
morel5000 said:
I have been reading this thread with great interest. I stumbled across this one , which also doesn't have the fuerst covered.
Click to expand...

Yuk! That looks cast. Copy both photos and compare side-by-side to the original below. On the original below, look at the fine crisp stamping, sharp edges, perfect sharp clear letters on the eagle Bandeau, extremely fine details to the feathers, perfect tiny pebbling to the PENINSULA Bandeau, absolutely smooth flawless cranium on the Totenkopf and femurs, oval eyes.. There just is no comparison.

dbh79a.jpg
[/quote]
 
Thanks, I learned something! When you see the bubbles they are obvious. I went back and downloaded the closeup as a reference,


721045.jpg




Best regards,
Michel
 
weirdpyramid said:
I think pickelhaubes.com needs a "FAIL" section, we can start with this helmet from Weitze. :P
Click to expand...

Or a sticky on spotting reproductions being sold as fakes. I've a couple of repros that I've purchased for fun (and mowing the lawn), so I think there's a lot of good info out there on these new old helmets.

:D Ron
 
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