Mützenbänder of Imperial Times
- Thread starter JustinG
- Start date
Steve Nick
Well-known member
This is a very interesting facet of collecting. Each ship has it's own unique history.
I've been keeping an eye out for a decent Mutze with a tally from the Matrosen branch (gold lettering) but they are much harder to find. It makes sense that more tallies would have survived from the Werft Division as they were shore based for the most part.
Do you have a sense as the to the ratio of Werft vs, Matrosen Mutzen. (sorry, I can't recall the key stroke combination to create an umlaut)
I've been keeping an eye out for a decent Mutze with a tally from the Matrosen branch (gold lettering) but they are much harder to find. It makes sense that more tallies would have survived from the Werft Division as they were shore based for the most part.
Do you have a sense as the to the ratio of Werft vs, Matrosen Mutzen. (sorry, I can't recall the key stroke combination to create an umlaut)
JustinG
Well-known member
Rarity with regard to the tallies usually goes with the number in the units, how long the particular unit was in service, the number of persons assigned to said unit. Also, please be aware, you could acquire a tally and not necessarily be assigned to that unit. Several were sold in their canteens pre-war to all sorts of visitors or crew. They could be given as sweetheart pieces. Etc....
So, for example: S.M.S. Schamien. She was previously a chinese river boat. She had a crew of about 12 Germans and 6 chinese nationals. This boat was in service in the far east 1899-1904. Not a huge number of personnel to serve on her. A relatively obscure boat. That tally is estimated value to be at least €250 Euro according to Markus Bodeux (Author of the Mützenband book This rough price guide was published in 2006. I personally know what I would pay for a rare tally like that. It would be more than €250.
Werft divisions are not as rare. (Werft literally translates into Dock or shipyard). According to page 264 of "Die Mützenbänder der Deutschen Marine 1815-1918" by B. Wedeking and Markus Bodeux
They address that shipyard divisions be Silver thread. So I don't think you will find a Gold thread Werft division.
@Steve Nick : Why would you specifically be looking for a Mützenband from one of these units specifically?
Biggest thing with the imperial tallies that one needs to be aware of, it isn't the prestige sometimes of the unit or ship, it's the rarity. Especially with those collectors who are willing to schill over some serious loot.
The other thing I will repeat is that there were several ships that bore the same name like the S.M.S. Emden. There was the famous "Heldenschiff" S.M.S. Emden which was the one, part of the East Asia Squadron commanded by Käpitain von Müller. A very successful raider during the outbreak of WW1. There was also a second S.M.S. Emden during WW1 which was introduced in late 1916. Survived the war and was interned at Scapa Flow post war and was beached during the Scuttling attempt. Was used as a target ship and sunk and sold for scrap.
Every person will say that their particular tally is from the "Heldenschiff" but we can never know for majority. The price will most certainly be the seller insisting that it is from the more famous and therefore more expensive ship Mützenband.
Unless you are me and have one of the only known Service memorial tallies for crew who served from a S.M.S. Emden grouping. As shown in post #23. 
Well that's a lot to dissemenate.
Best Regards,
JustinG
So, for example: S.M.S. Schamien. She was previously a chinese river boat. She had a crew of about 12 Germans and 6 chinese nationals. This boat was in service in the far east 1899-1904. Not a huge number of personnel to serve on her. A relatively obscure boat. That tally is estimated value to be at least €250 Euro according to Markus Bodeux (Author of the Mützenband book This rough price guide was published in 2006. I personally know what I would pay for a rare tally like that. It would be more than €250.
Werft divisions are not as rare. (Werft literally translates into Dock or shipyard). According to page 264 of "Die Mützenbänder der Deutschen Marine 1815-1918" by B. Wedeking and Markus Bodeux
They address that shipyard divisions be Silver thread. So I don't think you will find a Gold thread Werft division.
@Steve Nick : Why would you specifically be looking for a Mützenband from one of these units specifically?
Biggest thing with the imperial tallies that one needs to be aware of, it isn't the prestige sometimes of the unit or ship, it's the rarity. Especially with those collectors who are willing to schill over some serious loot.
The other thing I will repeat is that there were several ships that bore the same name like the S.M.S. Emden. There was the famous "Heldenschiff" S.M.S. Emden which was the one, part of the East Asia Squadron commanded by Käpitain von Müller. A very successful raider during the outbreak of WW1. There was also a second S.M.S. Emden during WW1 which was introduced in late 1916. Survived the war and was interned at Scapa Flow post war and was beached during the Scuttling attempt. Was used as a target ship and sunk and sold for scrap.
Every person will say that their particular tally is from the "Heldenschiff" but we can never know for majority. The price will most certainly be the seller insisting that it is from the more famous and therefore more expensive ship Mützenband.
Unless you are me and have one of the only known Service memorial tallies for crew who served from a S.M.S. Emden grouping. As shown in post #23. Well that's a lot to dissemenate.
Best Regards,
JustinG
Steve Nick
Well-known member
Thanks for taking the time to craft that detailed reply.
I have good condition Mutze to a Werft Division sailor attached to SMS Konig Wilhelm. I posted it a couple of years back.
I'd like to find a comparable one with the gold lettering of the Matrosen Division. Not necessarily to any specific ship, just a component of the High Seas Fleet that is readily recognized.
I have good condition Mutze to a Werft Division sailor attached to SMS Konig Wilhelm. I posted it a couple of years back.
I'd like to find a comparable one with the gold lettering of the Matrosen Division. Not necessarily to any specific ship, just a component of the High Seas Fleet that is readily recognized.
