John Josef
Well-known member
Extremely rare photo of one of the rarest of all Iron Crosses, the order of the besaufen.
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Rare Iron Cross order of the besaufen
- Thread starter John Josef
- Start date
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
A collector friend sent me these 2 photos
of an item to be offered by A. Thies in his auction
I guess that Thies did not say just what this is
as my friend was asking me what is it
He wanted to know if it was a flag part
I said No
I don't know
so i post the photos here
due to the 1870 Iron Cross
anyone have any ideas ?
Thanks
Steve
of an item to be offered by A. Thies in his auction
I guess that Thies did not say just what this is
as my friend was asking me what is it
He wanted to know if it was a flag part
I said No
I don't know
so i post the photos here
due to the 1870 Iron Cross
anyone have any ideas ?
Thanks
Steve
John Josef
Well-known member
Could it be a Bierzipfel for a giant? 
Seriously in my opinion it is part of a funeral sash that someone attached an iron cross to using parts from a watch fob chain. The colors look like for a non-combatant.
Seriously in my opinion it is part of a funeral sash that someone attached an iron cross to using parts from a watch fob chain. The colors look like for a non-combatant.
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ww1czechlegion
Well-known member
Hi Steve,
This item from the upcoming Thies Auction is shown on a recent thread on the WAF forum.
Here is what Thies says in the catalog about this item:
"Fahnenband mit Großkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes 1870.
Fahnenband in den preußischen Nichtkämpferfarben (weiß mit schwarzen Seitenstreifen). An den Enden vergoldeter Fransenbehang. Mit gestickter Bandrosette und anhängendem Großkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes 1870 (Fahnenstück).
Das Großkreuz Eisenkern mit Silberzarge. Exemplar in hervorragender Qualität. Zweifellos vor 1900 gefertigt.
Sehr interessantes Fahnenband und mit dem "Großkreuz" sehr selten.
Gesamtlänge: 420 cm
1-2
1.000,00 €"
https://www.andreas-thies.de/auktionen/68-754114
Here is a Bing translation in English language:
"Flag ribbon in the Prussian non-fighter colours (white with black side stripes). Gilt fringed hanging at the ends. With embroidered ribbon rosette and attached Grand Cross of the Iron Cross 1870 (flag).
The Grand Cross Iron Core with Silver Frame. Specimen in excellent quality. Undoubtedly made before 1900.
Very interesting flag ribbon and with the "Grand Cross" very rare."
Best Wishes,
Alan
ww1czechlegion
Well-known member
That is a very cool photograph. Thanks for posting it here.
It reminds me of the images I have seen of large wooden Iron Crosses similar in size to this one, with the nails being pounded into them. Each nail added represented a donation towards the war effort.
Best Wishes,
Alan
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NON YX
Member
like regiment flag？
by deepl:
Flag ribbon and bow in the colors of the ribbon of the Iron Cross with the cross of the 1870 Foundation
1/2 Silesian Grenadier Regiment No. 11
Cross: Iron plate
H: 61.2 mm, W: 61.2 mm Diameter of the rosette with applied heraldic eagle: 55.9 mm
The units whose flags and standards had been "on fire" during the 1870/71 war and already carried the Iron Cross were to be awarded flag ribbons in the color of the Iron Cross ribbon with the insignia as a renewed distinction. The ribbons were made of black silk with a white border and were decorated at the end with approx. 10 cm long fringes made of silver thread. The crosses on the ribbons, which are only shown from the front, are characterized by a fine casting with a very raised emblem.
Attachments
NON YX
Member
by deepl:
of a battalion flag of the 1st Hanover Infantry Regiment No. 74, black and silver ribbon with tassels at both ends, gilded secular clasps with the dates "January 1, 1900 - November 27, 1813". The flags of Infantry Regiment No. 74 were kept in the Leineschloss in Hanover until 1945, where their traces are lost (cf. Hermann Historica, 53 Auction, Lot 2439 the flag spike of Füs.Rgts. 73). Also a flag ribbon for the awarding of the Iron Cross in 1870 to units that had already received the EK in 1813. Silver clasp with Prussian eagle, ribbon printed in black and white. Replica for a lost ribbon, probably from the period between the world wars.
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Yes , the wide black / silver banner on the left is newer replacement for the original . I didn't remember that F R 74 had an 1813 Iron Cross
pole top on their flag? These were only carried on the flag on a regiment that already had an 1813 Iron Cross pole top. Kind of hard to see but if you notice my 2 Garde Regt zu Fuss / I B flag has the 1813 Iron Cross and also has what I call the repeat 1870 Iron Cross banner .On it are 4 halves of the 1870 Iron Cross in metal.
The streamer on the right is the 1900 Banderole , given to each regiment / batl in service on 1 Jan. 1900
the key is the second date on the clasp , which was the founding date of the batl
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Alan
Thanks for the info
I would wonder about the 1870 Iron Cross
He calls it a Grand Cross
An original 1870 Iron Cross Grand cross in the frame
of a pole top has a value today of 5000 Euro
I have never seen anything like this before
Steve
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
I have one of these banners with my 2 G R zu Fuss / I Batl flag
I think there only about 50 + of these carried on the flags
The 1870 Iron Crossed at the bottom are made in halves
Steve
NON YX
Member
Only nine people own Grand cross,Fake it's everywhere.
Eisernes Kreuz, Ausgabe 1914. Großkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes, Original-Exemplar (!), 65,9 (mit Öse) x 61,1 mm, die hohen Zargenteile zwischen ca. 4,0 und 4,7 mm dick, die Öse 5,9 mm breit, sehr fein gearbeiteter, geschwärzter Eisenkern
Gold- und Münzauktionen in Osnabrück und Berlin! Nehmen Sie an unseren Auktionen teil und sichern Sie sich Ihre Lieblingsmünzen.
www.kuenker.de
In history some companies can customize (Presence of stock and display items)
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
Great InformationOnly nine people own Grand cross,Fake it's everywhere.
Mackensen's Grand Cross（12000 euro）Eisernes Kreuz, Ausgabe 1914. Großkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes, Original-Exemplar (!), 65,9 (mit Öse) x 61,1 mm, die hohen Zargenteile zwischen ca. 4,0 und 4,7 mm dick, die Öse 5,9 mm breit, sehr fein gearbeiteter, geschwärzter Eisenkern
Gold- und Münzauktionen in Osnabrück und Berlin! Nehmen Sie an unseren Auktionen teil und sichern Sie sich Ihre Lieblingsmünzen.
In history some companies can customize (Presence of stock and display items)
View attachment 47483
Thanks for the post
Very interesting
Steve