chrispaulodale
Active member
Great thread, I wish I could add to it but instead I'm just learning lots...
Cheers
Chris
Cheers
Chris
The Mexican Haubes
- Thread starter henrry
- Start date
pickelhauben
Well-known member
They just used an American pith helmet spike and used it on a Mex helm.
Peter_Suciu
Well-known member
Arran said:I came across this photo on the web. Clearly the spike top is incorrect, but the plate appears to be a different design of Mexican wappen- has anyone seen such a helmet before, and is this variation identified?
I took that photo. The helmet is in the Arizona Military Museum, but they didn't have a lot of history on the helmet.
Peter_Suciu
Well-known member
Arran said:
Sorry, only one I took. But I can confirm it is at the Arizona Military Museum in Phoenix.
Nacuaa
Active member
I have stared at that Arizona plate on line for some time. i have not come across it in any museum collections in Mexico so we would need the assistance of a Mexican collector like Henry who founded this discussion with his collection I guess. It does not appear in any published official uniform regulations I have examined nor does it appear to be very "French" who had been supplying shako plates to the Mexican army for decades. I suspect the plate is a "pickelhaube" plate however. One of these turned up on Ebay about two years or more ago. It sold for about $250.00 as I recall. I have pictures of front and back but I don't see where to upload them on this message.
Nacuaa
Active member
I posted the URL and the Photobucket logo comes up. Is this working?
The fact that the helmet (with a small spike?) appears in the catalog suggests that someone ordered it for Mexican use. What type of plate appears in the catalog?
Is there a copy of the catalog on line for download or is any member sharing the catalog digitally so that I could acquire a copy. If Juncker is still selling in 1932 they may be supplying the Mexican army right up to that time. So maybe a later version of the pickelhaube.
The plate may have been designed for a shako before the revolution, but it is just too ornate for issue in the late period and makes more sense to me as a pickelhaube plate from the overall configuration.
The fact that the helmet (with a small spike?) appears in the catalog suggests that someone ordered it for Mexican use. What type of plate appears in the catalog?
Is there a copy of the catalog on line for download or is any member sharing the catalog digitally so that I could acquire a copy. If Juncker is still selling in 1932 they may be supplying the Mexican army right up to that time. So maybe a later version of the pickelhaube.
The plate may have been designed for a shako before the revolution, but it is just too ornate for issue in the late period and makes more sense to me as a pickelhaube plate from the overall configuration.
Nacuaa
Active member
A Porfiriato period metalhelm with this same plate is depicted in the 1979 publication "El Ejercito Mexicano." Neither this nor the Phoenix helmet are shown in any published official uniform regulations. It may be that these are helmets purchased for independent state militia or police units for example. This one appears to be a brass German pattern fire helmet with silvered fittings. I will post the photo on the Tinypic site and maybe aicusv or another member can transfer it to this discussion.
Any observations on the spike configuration? Is it a German civil configuration?
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=i6dn44&s=9#.WlwTLB1G0qx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Any observations on the spike configuration? Is it a German civil configuration?
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=i6dn44&s=9#.WlwTLB1G0qx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nacuaa
Active member
Arran's observation on this helmet he found is very interesting. The white plume was worn by aspirantes at the Chapultepec military academy. Looking closely at this photo of aspirantes training with artillery it looks as if they are wearing a plate with this configuration -- much more circular shaped badge than the spread eagle plate worn by the military itself. That said though there are photos of the academy students wearing pickelhaubes with the spread eagle as well. Also, the parts look brass on this helmet, implying use by an enlisted man. The helmet hadn't been distributed to the army yet so this may very well be made up for the "elite" soldiers -- the military academy troops.
I put the photo on Tinypics.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=b9dpa1&s=9#.WmCq-h1G2fQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I put the photo on Tinypics.
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=b9dpa1&s=9#.WmCq-h1G2fQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;