WWI German Guards Officer Helmet

J

Jim Newman

New member
Hope this post comes across well, it is my first.

Wondering what I have, I believe it is a WWI German Officiers Prussian Guards helmet. Not really sure what "guards" means. Would appreciate and info.

Is there a book I could buy to get more info? I have a couple other picklehauben and my friend has a few I would like to research.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Welcome aboard Jim great to have you with us and you are in the right place to be, if you are investing money in these helmets and need some help. First, the helmet plate is a Garde (Guard) officer plate which is good. However, your spike with the elongated neck is not right, at least I have never seen anything like it in 25 years of collecting. They made very tall spike tops but never a tall neck. The chin scales and rear spine seem to be made of zinc which has lost is gilding (common). This is correct for a mid war piece, they ran out of brass and went for zinc fittings. There is a problem however with the shape of the scales...they are convex (rounded) which means a mounted unit not infantry. Your helmet plate could be Garde Grenadier Infantry, Garde Field Artillery or Garde Foot artillery. The convex scales would have been worn by a Garde Field Artillery officer but if so, it would have a ball top on it not a spike. To cut to the chase here.....a mid war Garde officer helmet with improper spike, Convex scales and bosses for a mounted unit. From what I see, what you need to make this right is an artillery officer ball top and not that spike.
The Gardes were elite regiments with special helmets and uniforms.
 
Hmm, very interesting. Mid WWI and SHOULD be Artillery ball, THANKS!

This helmet came from a guy in a small farming town of central Michigan in the late 1980's, not sure how it got there but he said it was a family piece. The helmet actually has a real nice cloth liner (maybe silk or something) and the chin straps have a smaller center hole than my other two pickelhauben, I do not know how to remove this style chin strap.

The rest of the story, just today I sold my nicely refinished, matching 1914 artillery Luger, for cash and this helmet BUT I will store this helmet at the previous owners place as long as he lives. I hope he will stick around for a long time as he is one of the absolute best men out there. We really enjoy talking and collecting old militaria! SO, I will not modify this one for now.


I will post my other two picklehauben this weekend, I know I am missing 1/2 of a chin strap and two sheetmetal grommets.


Note: the guy on the right is my great grandfather Michael, I will need one of this style some day!


Again, much appreciated.
Jim
 
Hey Jim; Thanks for the quick reply, if you can, an interior shot of the liner would help here for further information. The officer liner should be a calf skin sweat band to which is sewn a ribbed silk liner which fits up inside the shell. Now again, mid war pieces may have a different material used because of shortages in proper materials. Mid war helmets often have a combination of pre war parts and materials plus "make do" stuff from during the war. There are hundreds of pictures here of officer liners so have a look and you will see what I am trying to describe....one pic truly saves a thousand words. Have a look at the officer spikes too and you will see how yours is so different from anything I have ever seen. Check out chin scales, cockades etc, all the information you need is here. I look forward to some more pics of your helmets and your friends as well. I am also going to start a new section on reference books which is long over due. They have been talked about and sort of half listed occasionally but having a specific area where new members can look is much smarter...thanks for that request.
 
welcome Jim! One of the great advantages of this place is that you get diverse opinions. I would not be so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are other possibilities for the rounded chin scales. This could be a train helmet. Which would mean that the spike is just fine. Now the spiked base is very interesting. Very saxon looking. There is a picture in the front of the Stubbs book that shows various spike bases that I have to look at. I've never seen one like this either but it could be…
 
Very fun, Saxon looking. Wondering if there were Saxon guard units?

Sounds like I should pick up Stubbs book.

Thanks,
Jim
 
No the Saxon army had its own elite formations and the Garde Korps recruited from there.

Hang on for a little while and we will get the picture. I'm not sure that Stubbs is worth buying first given the other books that are available. It was good in it's time but it has been seriously overshadowed. In my humble opinion…
 
I was thinking the spike base was rather saxon looking as well. Are there any extra mounting holes behind the Garde Eagle?

:D Ron
 
Very saxon looking
Click to expand...

In response to a couple of questions I had about this – there are two things about the base that caught my eye. The pearl ring is a specific design often found on Saxon helmets.

The second and most characteristic thing is that Saxons for some reason really seem to extenuate and emphasize the length of items. Their spikes are always taller – everything sort of bigger. Maybe something to compensate for smaller body parts I don't know. Just as an interesting anomaly – my tallest spike is a guard train Fährich.
 
I didn't own the helmet when I took the pictures and was afraid to remove the crest in case I should damage it. I didn't do anything under the liner.

Next time I am at my buddies house I will take pictures of the inside.

So probably Saxon origin but Prussian unit, supply or medical train I am guessing from around 1915. Excellent!

Thanks,
Jim
 
Welcome to the forum and as you probably noticed you came to the right place with your questions. I can highly recommend the website below for an excellent discussion of pickelhaubes:

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards,

Edwin
 
Take a look at the Order of the Black Eagle on the star. This is the style of device that was worn by an NCO, or a OYV or an officer Aspirant..
 
Here is the picture. It comes from Stubbs –Stubbs, Thomas N.G., Schiffer Military History, Atglen PA, 2003 (English)--http://www.pickelhauben.net/books/Stubbs.htm

stubbs.jpg


While it does not contain the exact match it gives you the idea of the variety available in private purchase. You can also see why I am a big fan of catalogs. – No I don't have this one and I don't know where it is from – but the photograph looks like junkers.
 
Yes, many option's! I will say the entire helmet "feels" right, perhaps a private purchase with a little extra flair for a mounted train officer.

Will get the inside pictures as soon as I can.

Jim
 
Well Joe, the original catalogs and pictures are the real contemporary sources beyond doubt. That pic and your catalog publication certainly puts it right out there....these helmets had a basic shell with visors, but you could up grade with silk liners plus monograms, silk ribbon sweat bands, taller spikes, heavier gilding, finer wappen strikes, lighter gauge leather etc. The ordinary ranker was stuck with a heavier version that was probably sweated in by 2 guys before him. I also think, that we have to step back here, while looking at these numerous upgrades and realize that private purchase meant that you had money and could afford certain options that told everyone who saw them that you had money and social status. It is no different today, if you can afford it, you pay the extra for the designer clothing which supposedly, convinces everyone that you have money.
 
Wouldn't you love to have been able to go shopping at CE Junker back then? Especially if, for some reason, they'd allow you to say, "Give me one of everything!" Talk about your instant collection to go.

:D Ron
 
Did anyone notice the Kokarden are flipped (Reichs on the left)? Also, the silver rings on them are of two types.
Interesting.
 
By member Poniatowski (Ron)
Wouldn't you love to have been able to go shopping at CE Junker back then? Especially if, for some reason, they'd allow you to say, "Give me one of everything!" Talk about your instant collection to go.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be fun! :D

By member Pointystuff
Did anyone notice the Kokarden are flipped (Reichs on the left)? Also, the silver rings on them are of two types.
Interesting.
Click to expand...

Excellent Eyes/Observation. :thumb up:

You're correct. I missed that point.

Best Regards,

Alan
 
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