It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:04 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:07 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 1117
Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt!

Though I saw this at the SOS, I passed it over when I fell in love with the L.I.R. 115, which I shared HERE recently. Nevertheless, the more I thought about it, the more I felt this helmet also deserved a good home. #-o As ever the case with regiments bearing a FUERST Adler, the concern is being duped by a modern electroformed Wappen. Thankfully, this specimen proved to be 100% legitimate.

Image
The M95 Pickelhaube is a small size — I would say 54. For the most part, it has retained its shape well

Image
M95 rear spine with Hinterschiene Schiebeklappe. I have a story to tell about the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Landeskokarde should anyone inquire

Image
The elaborate, overlapping regimental and unit stamping: IR 96 III B – I C – MGK – 1895

Image
Helmet sans Wappen — brass grommets present

Image
Macro detail of the Wappenadler, which retains all of its original gilt

Image
Macro of the reverse. I have no explanation for the black coating, which appears to be carbon. The lead solder retaining the left loop is sloppy, but appears to be contemporary. It may be indicative of a Kammer repair

Image
Extreme macro of the eagle's head and right wing. There is no question the Wappen is stamped brass

Image
The Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt heraldic star. Worn by a single battalion of one regiment, it is a bird of great rarity

Image
The star is two-piece construction. Having had a few unfortunate experiences with solder fatigue, I see no need to disassemble it, as everything else checks out to my satisfaction.

Chas

_________________
Kung Fucius -- The Aggressive Philosophy


Last edited by Lost Skeleton on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:51 pm 
Offline
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:21 pm
Posts: 307
Location: New Orleans
Nice helmet !!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:54 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:22 am
Posts: 591
Stunning!

John :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:43 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:55 pm
Posts: 653
Location: belgium
More than nice i would say
Nothing to comment
Even very nice marked inside

Trully a nice helmet

Jonas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:56 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:14 pm
Posts: 2948
Location: U.S.A.
Great helmet Charles, love it.

James

_________________
J.LeBrasseur


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 pm 
Offline
Departed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Posts: 2544
Nice to see that elusive Wappen photographed so close up in detail. Thank you Chas. I would kill to find an example of that Wappen.

Literally :-x

Unlike your your helmet, unfortunately, any rare loose Wappen gets slapped on a helmet faster than I can blink.

_________________
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:51 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:22 pm
Posts: 592
Question ;
Kammer
MGK
Could that be Machine Gun Komp. ?
Did they have them that early ?
or could one be in a single Batl ?
Just asking I don't know
If not then what does that Kammer stand for ?
Nothing was said about it
I thought Tony would comment
another Weitze purchase ?
It looks super as does your I R 115
so I thought maybe that that came from the same place
looks like a nice old collection showed up
2 great ones for you
Thanks
Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:09 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 1117
Steve:

I purchased the helmet from Malcom Fisher's REGIMENTALS. Had I purchased it at the SOS, I would have saved a bundle on shipping, but who knows what the show price would have been.

I have no doubt this helmet ultimately saw service in a Maschinengewehr Kompanie. My understanding, per the August 1914 composition of a German Infantry Regiment, is that each Bataillon had one machine gun company consisting of three Zug (platoons). Each Zug was equipped with two M1908 Maxims for a total of six machine guns. The MGK Kammer is bolder, and partially stamped over the 1895 date, which leads me to suspect the helmet was reissued after having been originally issued to the 1st rifle company (I C).

Given some of the recent revelations provided by Philippe (argonne), it is also possible the helmet entered service as a M1891, and was subsequently modified with a vented rear spine and M95 Wappen grommets. It is not readily apparent in the photo, but there is an incused "I" just to the left of the rear spine (beneath the "C"), which I take for the highest Garnitur classification.

Perhaps someone else will shed light on the subject.

Chas

_________________
Kung Fucius -- The Aggressive Philosophy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:58 am 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:45 am
Posts: 1650
Location: Belgium
Absolutely stunning!

Adler


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:46 am 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:21 am
Posts: 1496
Location: Belgium
This surely is a rare bird ! :thumb up:
Francis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:41 am 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 1117
One of the factors motivating my acquisition of the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt helmet was to complement my 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 II Btl. Reuß M95. The 1st Battalion of IR 96 was equipped with the standard Preußen line infantry Pickelhaube with KOENIG Adler, and, therefore, not terribly impressive.

At first glance, the Wappen stars may appear identical, but they are, in fact, quite unique. The photo also illustrates the appreciably smaller size of the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt helmet. I doubt it would fit a three-year-old child of the present generation.

Image

Macro photos of the Reuß FUERST Adler (front and back) can be viewed HERE (scroll to the bottom of the page for additional pictures of my helmet).

Chas

_________________
Kung Fucius -- The Aggressive Philosophy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:29 pm 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:29 pm
Posts: 83
Very nice helmets, very scare to see together.

I have a classic prussian helmet M 1891 which was too modernized in M 1895. In its cas too, the grommets which were put create a kind of weakness of the leather. I will put a picture when I have time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:34 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:31 pm
Posts: 762
Location: EU
Beautiful helmets congratulations :bravo:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:11 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 4303
Location: Ontario CN
Excellent Chas, it does not get any better than that sweet little helmet, great markings to boot!! :thumb up:

_________________
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:19 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:22 pm
Posts: 592
Great info
Special to me is to see the M G K Kammer
not sure that I have ever seen that
outstanding helmet and purchase .

Thanks for the info

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:17 pm 
Offline
Elite Member
Elite Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:47 pm
Posts: 3434
Location: Wisconsin
Thanks for posting, wonderful helmets!

:D Ron

_________________
I really do need to know more about this....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:24 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:59 pm
Posts: 1587
Location: Los Angeles USA
Rare and really nice! Is the Reuss helmet marked?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:33 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:54 am
Posts: 672
Location: Preussen, BA.IX district
Chas,

Your helmet seems to come from the January 2017 auction in Soissons (France). A "big" collection has been sold there, with good things but less good too......

Regimentals was there too and bought a bunch of helmets to sold them (much expensive) a few weeks later. If I am right, this helmet has been sold 1800 EUR in Soissons.

I have the same opinion as festwagner about a M91 modernized in a M95.

Now to the markings. I think that this helmet has first been in the III bataillon, in the 10 company. Marking is 10C, not 1C.
It may have been later transfered to one of the regiments MGK as they were created in almost all infantery units between 1908 and 1913.

Philippe
:wink:

_________________
http://www.dekokopf.de/
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:16 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 1117
Thanks, Philippe.

If the hammer you quote is correct, Regimentals realized a tidy profit on the helmet, but not exorbitant. Naturally, I had no knowledge of the Soissons auction. Bidding against a dealer presents its own perils as they have deep pockets and sometimes force one to overbid. C'est la guerre… At least this helmet represents one of the "good things" from the auction.

I was able to improve the Pickelhaube in one respect. The Landeskokarde was Preußen. However, more than a decade ago, I acquired an original Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Kokarde with a scrapper M95 Garde Pionier helmet. I joked with J.LeBrasseur that I was buying a helmet to complete a Kokarde. :wink:

Chas

_________________
Kung Fucius -- The Aggressive Philosophy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:09 am 
Offline
Site Admin
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 4303
Location: Ontario CN
You had the last laugh Chas....we collectors love those situations where you buy something "ordinary" which comes with a special bit of "extra rarity" that can be used later. In my case at this year's SOS, it was buying a scrapper Prussian M95 OR's helme with an Ulanen officer neusilber wappen on it. That made my show!! :D

_________________
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:01 am 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:54 pm
Posts: 1805
Location: Netherlands
Lovely helmets!

Thanks for sharing :D

Regards,

Edwin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:58 am 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:29 pm
Posts: 83
Lost Skeleton wrote:
Thanks, Philippe.

If the hammer you quote is correct, Regimentals realized a tidy profit on the helmet, but not exorbitant. Naturally, I had no knowledge of the Soissons auction. Bidding against a dealer presents its own perils as they have deep pockets and sometimes force one to overbid. C'est la guerre… At least this helmet represents one of the "good things" from the auction.

I was able to improve the Pickelhaube in one respect. The Landeskokarde was Preußen. However, more than a decade ago, I acquired an original Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Kokarde with a scrapper M95 Garde Pionier helmet. I joked with J.LeBrasseur that I was buying a helmet to complete a Kokarde. :wink:

Chas


Thanks for the specification about the Landeskokarde because I noticed too that the pictures of the Soisson auction show a helmet with a different Kokarde. The lack of the genuine Kokarde, very hard to find, explains the final price at the auction. It is a real challenge to manage to draw togeteher so scarce Kokarde and good regiment marks.

Here is the picture of my M 91 helmet transformed in M95. There are the same weakness of the leather around the grommets. Here, a real hole has appeared...

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:30 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 1117
festwagner wrote:
Here is the picture of my M 91 helmet transformed in M95. There are the same weakness of the leather around the grommets. Here, a real hole has appeared...

Image

Exactly so, festwagner. :thumb up: I assembled this composite to provide greater detail of the IR 96 grommets and the stress caused by the retrofitting. The M95 Hinterschiene is noticeably bullnose where it meets the spike base, and the impression left by the original M91 spine can be seen where it was secured to the neck visor:

Image

This is the Landeskokarde. It is non-ferrous and the alloy appears to be Tombak. The reverse is painted flat black. The paint on both sides was applied by paint sprayer.

Image

Chas

_________________
Kung Fucius -- The Aggressive Philosophy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:13 pm 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:29 pm
Posts: 83
Thanks, I never studied the grommets of M91/95 but the comparison is clear.
Has the JR 96 helmet still the sewing of the leather under the Hinterschiene ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:28 pm 
Offline
Special Ranks Member
Special Ranks Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:57 am
Posts: 1117
festwagner wrote:
Has the JR 96 helmet still the sewing of the leather under the Hinterschiene ?

No, the helmet is not stitched in the back. However, it does look like this (I was correct in estimating the Kopfweite as 54). :wink:

Image

Image
The grommets from inside

Image
Finally, and most interesting, one of the enormous backing plates for the Knopf 91. I will have to check other helmets in my collection for discs this size

This has been a fascinating helmet to analyze with the forum. Thanks for all your input.

_________________
Kung Fucius -- The Aggressive Philosophy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:12 pm 
Offline
Exceptional Contributor
Exceptional Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:54 am
Posts: 672
Location: Preussen, BA.IX district
festwagner wrote:
Has the JR 96 helmet still the sewing of the leather under the Hinterschiene ?


To my understanding, M91 helmet did not have a sewing under the rear non ventilated trim, because they did not have to be cut down when modified after 1895. The shell had the same high as the M95.

Philippe
:wink:

_________________
http://www.dekokopf.de/
-------------------------
"Laechle und sei froh, denn es koennte schlimmer kommen!" - Und ich lächelte und war froh - Und es kam schlimmer..."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:25 am 
Offline
Lite Contributor
Lite Contributor

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:29 pm
Posts: 83
Thanks Philippe for this precision which ist very interesting for my helmet


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:28 pm 
Offline
Departed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Posts: 2544
argonne wrote:
To my understanding, M91 helmet did not have a sewing under the rear non ventilated trim, because they did not have to be cut down when modified after 1895. The shell had the same high as the M95.


The last Model of Pickelhaube to be sewn together was the M1867.

M1871, M1887, M1891, M1895 were all pressed from boiled leather. Any of those models found with a rear seam where the leather is joined, is usually an indication that it was a pre-1871 Pickelhaube that has been upgraded.

_________________
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:46 pm
Posts: 28
The Aisne auction (in Soissons) was made up primarily of the collection of Stephane Dekerle. I think you can still go to their website and see all of the Pickelhauben that were for sale. It was a big collection and contained a wide spectrum of imperial German uniforms, gear and insignia.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: