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 Post subject: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:11 pm 
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UR's 1,2,3 officers wore this style of wappen on their tschapka. The "before" pictures:

Image
The right chin scale although wired together does have all of it's scales but one. The left however, is missing the last, 3. Both are going to have to be rebuilt and hopefully, I can provide the missing pieces.

Image The shell is rippled and frankly, I have no clue as to whether I can fix this. I believe this piece was made to be light weight on the head so the thin leather has ended up in this condition after 100+ years.

Image

Image

Image
The liner showing the Graf Crown and cypher which seems to be an "E" to my eyes has to be restitched.

Image
Hopefully, some of our European members can provide some additional information on this cypher.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:00 am 
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Very nice tschapska!
Whell worth a restoration.
Al I can say about the crown and cypher, it that it is indeed a nobility crown. But to me it seems to miss a cypher (letter).
The way the one is positioned and the shadow you get to see right of the cypher in place...looks like a "J".
There is a forum specialized in nobility research, but they are French;http://forum.tempsdesherauts.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Very nice project Brian, The construction looks a little different than the one you restored for me. Is it a different material? Look forward to watching the project progress. I did see the other day an officers field badge, if I recall where, I will let you know.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:36 pm 
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All the best for your project, Brian :thumb up:
Unfortunately I can't help a lot, only with the Stiching...
The Crown has 7 Balls on top of the Peaks and this stands for a modern Baron-Crown (in German: Moderne Freiherren-Krone).
Concerning the Cypher I'm in line with "stuka f", the existing one seems to be an "E". It's off-center position together with the discoloration looks like a missing "I" or "J". But the Monograms have been very ornate sometimes, it's hard to say it exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Thanks for your comments everyone. We now know that the type of Crown indicates "newer nobility" rather than an old noble family. I have no clue as to which letter this cypher represents...could be but I do see now the shadow of the J missing letter. You can also tell that there is something missing by the fact that the remaining letter is not centered on the crown. There were 2 initials.
Yes Scout, this is a different construction, we have 4 segments stitched together to form the shell and stem for the mortarboard top. I can see from the inside that the top is cardboard covered by thin leather. i will be taking the cloth liner out and will post some interior shots as well. More photos to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:33 am 
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One more thing...The "Modern Baron Crown" does not necessarily belong to the newer nobility. But the type of the Crown changed in the end of the 18.th century. This crown could also be one for the old nobility.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:53 am 
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Nice project and good luck :)

Regards,

Edwin


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Do the bumps come out on the interior ?

Is the skull leather 2 layers like the front bill ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:16 am 
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I asked myself the same question. Outer layer or the complete shell that is bumped? What is the material-all leather or leather covered? Like this Tschapka!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Regarding the cypher....The owner restitched it in the wrong position, it was hanging by one original thread loop. I will fix this and post pics once I have the liner stitched back on to the sweatband. I really hope that we can ID the original owner of this helmet.
A picture of the wappen now that it has been cleaned:
Image
My next task is to rebuild the chin scales and I will post photos of this soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Ok, let's take a look at the "before" pictures of the chin scales on this lovely old mistreated piece of History. It is a survivor but certainly bears the wounds of a hard life over the century!
Image

One of the scales, is mostly complete but the "male side", is missing numerous scales including the all important end piece which links the 2 halves together. This picture, shows the scales plus replacements which were given to me by Randy T, last SOS.
Typically, the end fitting and the next 2-3 smaller scales are the ones missing in any chin strap rebuild. However, it can go much further up the scale depending on what the helmet has experienced. I will be renewing the pictures in my old post "Anatomy of a Chin Scale" shortly....rebuilding one is not an easy process, at least not for me. My restoration mentor, the late George Birringer was a master at it and I am trying to follow in his footsteps.

Image
Here, we see the condition of the reverse side of the female scale (both scales actually). The leather backing is disintegrating to dust due to red rot. There is evidence here, that at least 2 collectors tried to fix the scales in the past...one tried coarse white cotton thread and glued new leather to the backing and then another collector, employed fine wire to try and reinforce the scales. There is at least one handmade 3 prong scale replacement which can be seen on the upper male scale (#5 from the end fitting). We modern day collectors have to realise, that these guys had no access to a world wide web of fellow hauben collectors who might provide parts for restoration.

Image
Here, I am in the midst of of removing each scale starting with the largest one where the kokarden and bosses go through. Things are so rotten than all the backing disintegrates and breaks up. A dirty job!
The card board seen in the picture is my template for cutting out the backing leather for the chin scales.

Image

Image
Each scale has been removed and numbered. All staples are preserved, because they are specially designed for this application. Sometimes, they break due to rust and then you have to use a modern one but if at all possible you keep the originals.

Image
The last photo in this series...eh?.. is a tribute to the Great White North and it's excellent beer industry! Everytime, I go to the SOS and we have our apres show gatherings, my American friends tend to order/bring "light" beers"....ugh!!! Then some do order bourbon ??? So my friends, where do these cardboard strips come from and how are they being used in this chin scale rebuild?? To be continued...eh? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Brian,

Best guess on the owner, the crown with seven tines over the gothic "E", would be
Oblt Freiherr von Entress-Fuersteneck, Uhlan Regt. 3.

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:47 am 
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Thank you Denis, I tend to think that it is an "E" as well and I guess your ID makes total sense. I haven't messed with the cypher yet other than to take out the cloth liner which needed to be restitched.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Brian,

Maybe a fellow member has a copy of the UR3 Regimental History, and can find a photo of
von Entress-Furestenenck?

It would be nice to display with the helmet!


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:32 pm 
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Yes Denis...that would be very cool, if someone could provide an image of the original owner. I could not see a Duke not having pictures taken of himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:57 am 
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This is coming along very nicely . :D :D :D

Are the indentations on the skull through to the other side ?

Is the skull made of 2 different layers of leather like the front bill ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:51 am 
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This is good to go. I am following this rebuild with interest. I have a couple of rotting chin scale sets that need rebuilding. Thank you Brian for doing this.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Matthew, the dents do show on the inside of the shell. i don't think we are dealing with 2 layers just one thin one stitched together in sections. I believe, this was done to decrease the weight of the cap. I will post interior shots of the shell soon and we can discuss further. I have to finish the scales which are giving me a bit of trouble. Next, I will remove the front visor which needs a restitch. It is then that I will try to get the dents out of the shell. This will involve wetting the areas and trying to push them out and allow to dry back in proper position. The visor also has a split in the thin leather which folds over and is stitched to the shell. This area is directly below where the wappen tail feathers are.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:41 pm 
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I finally finished the female chin scale last night.
Image

What I have been trying to do, is cut and punch card board templates which I can use for any rebuild. The length of a chin scale varies. So far, I have encountered 14, 15, 16, 17 scales plus end fittings. It seems simple, but as with anything "Hauben" it is not . The size of the scales (L &W) is different depending on manufacture. On this complete scale alone, it took me 3 tries before I got a correct new backing strip for the scales. It would be natural for any observer to suggest....why not use the old centre strip as your template to make a new one?? The answer in this and in most cases, is that the staple strip has broken or rotted away so you can't use it. I think my real problem here, is that I do not have a brain for Mathematics :( . I am a Realist not a Romantic, I have played in Rock Bands for 50 years, so I can handle the simple counting which is part of all music and scale rebuild! I taught History for 35 years which is an abstract social science and involves heavy Psychology in manipulating adolescents. However, in chin scale rebuilds,.......argh!! I get it done but can not establish an easy "modern" way of doing it. :eek: I think, the realist has to suck it up and "realize" that this is the way it is. There is no definite answer here .

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Brian- I take exception to your comment on light Beer we drink down here.

Every year I ask if you brought any Molson Brador or any other Canadian beer, and all you ever have to show for it is Walmart wine....

Put your money where your mouth is and bring down some good stuff for us to consume :P

Brian knows I am kidding so need for anyone to get feathers ruffled.

James

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Hey Brian, you used to have a thread that was something like "the anatomy of a chin scale", or something like that. You had a step by step breakdown on rebuilding these scales and you talked about using the fingers from little old lady gloves you would find at antique stores for cheap.

Is that thread still out there? It was pretty comprehensive, but I assume that the pics were lost during the PB mess.

Any chance you could do a step-by-step on the male chinstrap? A "lessons learned" type part of this thread?


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Brian,

Oberleutnant Freiherr von Entreß-Fuersteneck, taken around 1900.

Image

Also, beautiful work on the scale! I had to make & replace a couple scales that were missing from a kurass a while ago, but I used Labatt's for the template.
It turned out ok...maybe I should have used Moosehead?

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:41 pm 
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James, they don't make that beer anymore unfortunately, it was causing too many DUY's even for us Canucks. At 8% it was jet fuel! What I will do, is bring down some Labatt's 50 or "Cinquante" as the Quebecois call it. This brew will bring you back to your true roots which as you know are based in Quebec. It also produces severe flatulence but that is all part of the experience! :thumb up: Denis, that picture is fantastic, well done!! Thank you. Bryan there is a post made long ago called anatomy of a chin scale but of course the pictures are gone. I have taken a series of pics of the recent rebuild and will post them shortly here in the Restoration section. I also sent you a PM asking you to contact me via email so that I could give you some additional information. My email is available in the Help section or check out your Private Messages.

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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Dennis: Thank you for your research on this helmet. I have been following this restoration closely as it is my helmet and I was recommended to send it to Brian by another member for restoration after I posted pictures of it in the latest find section. It is my first Tschapka and I kind of stumbled into it. When I acquired it, the cypher was actually inverted per the attached picture. It was only being held by one stitch at the lower right part of the cypher and because I was afraid it might come loose in shipping and I was in a hurry, I affixed it with a new stitch but accidentally inverted it into the position that makes it look like a gothic E. Based on the patina and positioning of the cypher in my initial picture I feel this is actually a gothic D or possibly some other gothic letter. Do you or anyone else have any thoughts on this and who might the owner be if it is a gothic D?
Thank you, Rodney

It looks like I can't post pictures. Sorry

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Hi Rodney,

I've switched to Picorator since the Photobucket debacle. (Take a look at Site Information: How to Post Photographs). Photobucket essentially wiped out all the photos on the site posted by people using their service.

If you have a photo of the cypher in the correct position it would help me decipher it...no pun intended. I'm not sure it's a "D", but I'll see what I can find.

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Hi Dennis: I hope this works. This is the way the cypher wasbefore I hastily re-sewed it on. I will go with whatever you say but if you look at the surface patina which matches on both crown and cypher, the centered alignment and the dirt or shadow marks behind the cypher this way, it is the way is was and has been for all the times I looked at it before I acquired it.

Thanks, Rodney

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Hi Rodney,

Thanks for posting the photo. It's a bit of a quandary though, it appears to be, in my humble opinion, a gothic "I", (unless the cypher was broken at some point). I've checked the ranglists I have, and no officer, more specifically a "Freiherr" with that initial listed in UR 1,2 or 3. One caveat, I only have the 1913, 14 and 1926 references.

Perhaps another member can help out?

Dennis


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 Post subject: Re: Ulan Regt. 1,2,3 Officer Tschapka
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:42 am 
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I know very little about Gothic letters but having just Googled Gothic I, I would now agree that that is what it looks like. I don't think it is broken. Thank you.


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