M95 Sachsen Leib-Grenadier-Regt. Nr.100
- Thread starter Adler
- Start date
joerookery
Well-known member
Glenn,
School me oh wise one! I know you have the original Saxon information so this could be very informative. I was under the impression that this is/was a Voranstalt. That senior cadets Merged into the Prussian Haupt school in GROSS LICHTERFELD. without looking it up I am sure this is repeated in source in the books by Clemente and Moncure. How do you have the system working?
Philippe,
I have not seen a stamped private purchase. I have seen and own one that has writing on the red covering all the back visor. Interestingly it was applied in the same method using what appears to be a grease pencil. The kokarden in my mind are indicative of one of the many things that have been doctored with or at least changed on this helmet. I don't like it. But as you said only my opinion. There is no difference between the helmet for a simple private, an NCO, or a senior NCO. Rank was not the determining factor in anything except Kokarden and I have not seen on this forum complete unanimity on how those were applied. Dave Mosher just brought up an old controversy about rings. as I said the real difference was not rank but rather the quality of the helmet and how much you wanted to pay regardless of your rank. One year volunteers tended to run the entire gamut of helmets that were a little bit officer to a great deal like a finished officer. Converting these helmets from enlisted to reserve officer was an entire industry that has been discussed in detail before.
School me oh wise one! I know you have the original Saxon information so this could be very informative. I was under the impression that this is/was a Voranstalt. That senior cadets Merged into the Prussian Haupt school in GROSS LICHTERFELD. without looking it up I am sure this is repeated in source in the books by Clemente and Moncure. How do you have the system working?
Philippe,
I have not seen a stamped private purchase. I have seen and own one that has writing on the red covering all the back visor. Interestingly it was applied in the same method using what appears to be a grease pencil. The kokarden in my mind are indicative of one of the many things that have been doctored with or at least changed on this helmet. I don't like it. But as you said only my opinion. There is no difference between the helmet for a simple private, an NCO, or a senior NCO. Rank was not the determining factor in anything except Kokarden and I have not seen on this forum complete unanimity on how those were applied. Dave Mosher just brought up an old controversy about rings. as I said the real difference was not rank but rather the quality of the helmet and how much you wanted to pay regardless of your rank. One year volunteers tended to run the entire gamut of helmets that were a little bit officer to a great deal like a finished officer. Converting these helmets from enlisted to reserve officer was an entire industry that has been discussed in detail before.
Joe,
Not the case, the guys graduated from Dresden mostly with the rank of charakterisierter Fähnrich unless they remained and entered the Unterprima/Oberprima, passed the Abitur and then graduated in the rank of Fähnrich. I think Clemente is refering to cadets who transfered into the Prussian Army. Mister Clemente errs when he refers to the institute at Dresden as a preparatory school as the Royal Saxon War Ministry Order Nr. 151 dated 28 July 1900 clearly lays out the classes up to and including the Oberprima and in what rank the cadets graduated.
Regards
Glenn
Not the case, the guys graduated from Dresden mostly with the rank of charakterisierter Fähnrich unless they remained and entered the Unterprima/Oberprima, passed the Abitur and then graduated in the rank of Fähnrich. I think Clemente is refering to cadets who transfered into the Prussian Army. Mister Clemente errs when he refers to the institute at Dresden as a preparatory school as the Royal Saxon War Ministry Order Nr. 151 dated 28 July 1900 clearly lays out the classes up to and including the Oberprima and in what rank the cadets graduated.
Regards
Glenn
argonne
Well-known member
Glennj said:
I think a good example for that is the beginning of military career of Sigurd von Kleist (already treated on another post on this forum) as following:
With 15, entry at the Kadetten Korps, then Unterprima, Oberprima and Abitur.
With 19 or 20, rank of a Portepee Fähnrich and possibility to start a military career in a preferential unit.
ccasion5:
weirdpyramid
New member
Adler said:
Yes, Belgian beers are always better and German ones are good too, oh and Czech beers.... and sometimes Guinness.
Great helmet BTW!
argonne said:
Chimay is excellent but I have discovered more recently Delirium Tremens beer, the one with the pink elephant on the label...... :compress:
joerookery
Well-known member
After doing a little review I see where the problem started. Clemente on page 83 says “the only other sources for cadets were the few boys who transfer to Lichterfeld from the small preparatory cadet school Dresden Saxony and those passing through the Bavarian lower and upper cadet schools in Munich however, only those from Saxony became part of the Prussian corps and never arrived in numbers…
Moncure never really addresses it. So I interpolated from the small preparatory school. The example Philippe gave us is pretty good. Interestingly, I do not have any pictures of Saxon cadets that are not from the “lower preparatory group.” I have pictures of Bavarian and the Prussian cadets but need to do more work on Saxony–for that matter also on Bavaria.
My club service St. Ambroise-elephant beer still has the glasses!
Moncure never really addresses it. So I interpolated from the small preparatory school. The example Philippe gave us is pretty good. Interestingly, I do not have any pictures of Saxon cadets that are not from the “lower preparatory group.” I have pictures of Bavarian and the Prussian cadets but need to do more work on Saxony–for that matter also on Bavaria.
My club service St. Ambroise-elephant beer still has the glasses!
joerookery
Well-known member
Now just to show you how much I have forgotten. I had this all the time. Yes indeed they did wear helmets.This also appears to be private purchase.
ps901 by joerookery, on Flickr
ps901 by joerookery, on Flickr
joerookery
Well-known member
Thank you Karel! It was misfiled and I thought for a while I had lost it. What I focused on for this picture was the left sleeve that shows clearly how these guys were issued clothing indifferently with the expectation that they would “grow into it”. I forgot all about the helmet. Mia Coppa.
Joe,
easier for me to post here than flickr. The annual saxon cadet distribution was published in the Königlich Sächsisches Militär-Verordnungsblatt, the classes usually graduating annually in early to mid March. This from 1905 with 15 cadets graduating in the rank of charakterisierter Fähnrich.
Regards
Glenn
easier for me to post here than flickr. The annual saxon cadet distribution was published in the Königlich Sächsisches Militär-Verordnungsblatt, the classes usually graduating annually in early to mid March. This from 1905 with 15 cadets graduating in the rank of charakterisierter Fähnrich.
Regards
Glenn
argonne
Well-known member
Hey Joe, great picture!! And the helmet really seems to have the same wappen as a GR100 one, as I presumed(gilt saxon wappen on silver star). :thumb up: :thumb up: :thumb up:
Glenn, on that 1905 Kadetten-Verteilung-Blatt, there interestingly is a cadet with the name Siegelmann (the last one on the list) who went in one of the Königl. Sächs. Kompanie of the ER2.(also tracked as a Leutnant in the Ehren-Rang-Liste, first in the ER2 and at the end of war in the Verkehrstruppen of the ER1).
Do you maybe have the Kadett-Verteilung-Blatt of the year 1903 (or eventually 1904)? It´s pretty possible that the name of Franz Krüger is mentioned there too. (he also went in one of those two saxon companies of the ER2, wore first a GR 100 helmet there and was later the Regiment-Adjutant at the interesting transition time when the regiment moved without the two saxon companies from Berlin to Hanau).
Philippe :salute:
Glenn, on that 1905 Kadetten-Verteilung-Blatt, there interestingly is a cadet with the name Siegelmann (the last one on the list) who went in one of the Königl. Sächs. Kompanie of the ER2.(also tracked as a Leutnant in the Ehren-Rang-Liste, first in the ER2 and at the end of war in the Verkehrstruppen of the ER1).
Do you maybe have the Kadett-Verteilung-Blatt of the year 1903 (or eventually 1904)? It´s pretty possible that the name of Franz Krüger is mentioned there too. (he also went in one of those two saxon companies of the ER2, wore first a GR 100 helmet there and was later the Regiment-Adjutant at the interesting transition time when the regiment moved without the two saxon companies from Berlin to Hanau).
Philippe :salute:
joerookery
Well-known member
Glenn,
While you are busy being the Oracle all things Saxon am I being dense or is it difficult to understand why this gentleman on the left hand column is a Gefreiter? Gefreiter Pfeil? :-k :-k :-k
While you are busy being the Oracle all things Saxon am I being dense or is it difficult to understand why this gentleman on the left hand column is a Gefreiter? Gefreiter Pfeil? :-k :-k :-k
Joe,
exactly the same as in the Prussian Cadet Corps. The more senior Cadets could attain the rank of Gefreiter or non-commissioned rank as an Unteroffizier and the unique rank of Portepee-Unteroffizier. I will dig out a Prussian Kadetten-Verteilung to illustrate the point.
Philippe,
I have the other years and will check this evening.
Regards
Glenn
exactly the same as in the Prussian Cadet Corps. The more senior Cadets could attain the rank of Gefreiter or non-commissioned rank as an Unteroffizier and the unique rank of Portepee-Unteroffizier. I will dig out a Prussian Kadetten-Verteilung to illustrate the point.
Philippe,
I have the other years and will check this evening.
Regards
Glenn
joerookery
Well-known member
Glenn,
No need to dig it out. I understand. I just had one of those senior moments this morning. I am still trying to recover from the wedding and I have another to go in August!
No need to dig it out. I understand. I just had one of those senior moments this morning. I am still trying to recover from the wedding and I have another to go in August!